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Where did RSS go in Safari 6???

95283 Views 544 Replies Latest reply: Mar 22, 2014 4:39 PM by piero RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • poddan Calculating status...
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    Sep 30, 2012 6:57 AM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft: Ok,

     

    A question to you, is it possible to build an extension that works the same way as Safaris built-in? I will buy it in a second.

     

    For me RSS belongs to the browser. I don't want to switch between apps or have it in notification center. To have the feeds in the toolbar with notifications is a very nice and clean way to have it.

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,905 points)
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    Sep 30, 2012 7:24 AM (in response to poddan)

    poddan wrote:

     

    A question to you, is it possible to build an extension that works the same way as Safaris built-in?

     

    I think so. Safari extensions are restricted to HTML5, CSS, and Javascript. There is a jQuery plug-in to parse RSS feeds. In theory, one could connect the two.

     

    I will buy it in a second.

     

    That is a harder question. Safari extensions are pretty hard to monetize. A Safari plug-in would be more powerful and a little bit easier to control vis-à-vis copyright. You couldn't get either into the Mac App Store.

     

    For me RSS belongs to the browser. I don't want to switch between apps or have it in notification center. To have the feeds in the toolbar with notifications is a very nice and clean way to have it.

     

    Safari is the only browser that has evicted RSS feeds. I don't know about Chrome. It probably directs you to Google reader. Firefox definitely still does RSS.

     

    You can use an iPad user agent, a bookmarklet, and route feeds through Apple's mobile RSS reader:

     

    Screen Shot 2012-09-30 at 10.07.06 AM.png

    I don't really like the mobile reader but I'm not going to have time to do a mobile reader myself for several months.

  • poddan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2012 8:04 AM (in response to etresoft)

    Thanks..

     

    The extension "Foxis Live RSS" in Chrome let you have the feeds in the toolbar. When you click it you get a drop down with the feeds, you also get the notification on the bookmark, thats what i'm using when i'm on a Pc. And FF has that by default i think?

     

    Safaris way though is slicker and with more options.

  • neil456 Calculating status...
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    Sep 30, 2012 2:40 PM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft wrote:

     

    Perhaps you just aren't looking hard enough. I made the same mistake with EtreFeed 1.0. It worked perfectly on every feed I could find. But it turns out that different people are interested in different topics and in some areas, RSS feeds are pretty much standards-free.

    That is not your or Apple's problem, just put up a window that says the feed does not adhere to a standard and suggest they notifiy the web site owner and leave it at that. People will sort it out. There are 5 or 6 standards and the differences are for the most part stupid. But that does not mean we should throw the technology away.  For most people any of them work well enough.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 11:57 AM (in response to etresoft)

    well obviously somebody is paying attention to this thread cause they just deleted that borderline flaming rant almost instantly. although i dont agree with his choice of words i can certanly understand his frustration as do many others who are still watching this thread and waiting for apple to reticfy the issue in some way shape or form.

  • neil456 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 12:36 PM (in response to ubernaut)

    Well, I just looked up PSFeed.h in OS X 10.8 developer tools and PSFeed.h is not yet deprecated.

     

    There is also a system guide in Core Servies Layer -> Publication Subscriptions -> Publication Subscription Programming Guide -> Understanding Feeds, in the 10.8 documentation that talks about Supporting RSS 0.9, RSS 1.0, RSS 2.0, and Atom Syndication Format.  It shows examples of Safari and RSS feeds.  Again not deprecated.

     

    So who knows, but obviously someone got really ****** at RSS feeds and just yanked them out of Safari with no notice.

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,905 points)
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    Oct 2, 2012 4:35 PM (in response to neil456)

    neil456 wrote:

     

    Well, I just looked up PSFeed.h in OS X 10.8 developer tools and PSFeed.h is not yet deprecated.

     

    There is also a system guide in Core Servies Layer -> Publication Subscriptions -> Publication Subscription Programming Guide -> Understanding Feeds, in the 10.8 documentation that talks about Supporting RSS 0.9, RSS 1.0, RSS 2.0, and Atom Syndication Format.  It shows examples of Safari and RSS feeds.  Again not deprecated.

    I think the only time Apple ever deprecates something is when something needs to change in the operating system and a side effect of that change breaks something. If it isn't actually broken, there is no need to deprecate it. The PubSub framework is used by third party apps so if Apple just pulled it, those apps would stop working. Apple doesn't have to continue to use it for Mail and Safari.

     

    So who knows, but obviously someone got really ****** at RSS feeds and just yanked them out of Safari with no notice.

    It was probably just something that sounded like a good idea at the time, but caused other problems as Apple tried to move forward with sandboxing applications. Here is a write-up on how to get PubSub working in a sandboxed app: http://cutecoder.org/programming/sandboxing-pubsub-framework/

     

    Even more interesting is this post written by someone who claims to have worked for Apple and wrote 2/3 of the PubSub framework itself: http://prod.lists.apple.com/archives/cocoa-dev/2012/Aug/msg00386.html

     

    Judging from what I learned about RSS feeds, I have no reason to doubt the veracity of that post.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
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    Oct 2, 2012 5:29 PM (in response to etresoft)

    well be that as it may apple sorta put a bunch of people in a corner with this decision so either they gonna realize the error of their ways which i agree seems unlikely at this point or somebody will really fill the gap by building a plugin that can resotre the full functionality we are all used to or the slow bleed begins for hard core users that have always looked to apple because its the best platform to use for many professional computer users.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 2, 2012 5:33 PM (in response to etresoft)

    also if there really hadnt been any developement to pubsub since 2007 doesnt that totally discount the arguement that it was causing all this hassle for apple engineers?

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,905 points)
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    Oct 2, 2012 6:26 PM (in response to ubernaut)

    ubernaut wrote:

     

    well be that as it may apple sorta put a bunch of people in a corner with this decision

    That is true, but not unprecedented. Apple is known for forcing users to adopt new behaviour if they want to upgrade. DOS and early Windows software still runs on Windows 7. Don't try that with your System 7, or even Leopard PPC software on a Mac.

     

    somebody will really fill the gap by building a plugin that can resotre the full functionality we are all used to

    Developers (such as myself) have known about this change for some time. I don't know of any RSS plugins. Such a plugin would not be all that difficult to write, but why bother when you can write an app instead and sell it? One possibility would be a Safari plug-in that uses a 3rd party app for managing the feed. That may be possible.

     

    the slow bleed begins for hard core users that have always looked to apple because its the best platform to use for many professional computer users.

    So where are you going go? The reality is that this is not that big of a deal. There is a "slow bleed" of users away from Safari, but it has nothing to do with this. Many people are switching to Chrome which apparently already has Safari's behavior. Hard-code RSS users have been using dedicated apps for a long time.

     

    if there really hadnt been any developement to pubsub since 2007 doesnt that totally discount the arguement that it was causing all this hassle for apple engineers?

    Not at all. It shows that Apple was never really committed to the framework to begin with. It is Apple's recent push towards sandboxing that is the biggest source of problems. Keep in mind that Apple has to plan ahead. Take iOS Maps for example. It probably would have been much more mature next year. But next year Apple will release iOS 6.1 or 6.2. Apple won't make a significant change like this in an update, only a major version. So, Apple may have a plan for a change in 10.8.5 or something that would finally kill PubSub in Mail and/or Safari. But Apple isn't going to pull a feature like that in an update. It is better to pull it sooner, even if it isn't necessary to do so right now.

     

    I will add a Safari plug-in to my "to do" list. Just know that my "to do" list is quite full until next spring.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
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    Oct 4, 2012 12:57 PM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft wrote:

     

    That is true, but not unprecedented. Apple is known for forcing users to adopt new behaviour if they want to upgrade. DOS and early Windows software still runs on Windows 7. Don't try that with your System 7, or even Leopard PPC software on a Mac.

     

    thats not the same thing at all i'm talking about functionality your talking about frameworks/os. they did not "force" anyone to jump onboard to OS X until it had feature parity with OS 9. i think this is actually more akin to what they did with iDVD at least with iDVD the technology had almost died, RSS is still heavily used throughout the net it's use is in fact growing as is the standardization of its format (think wordpress and feedburner).

     

     

    etresoft wrote:

     

    Developers (such as myself) have known about this change for some time. I don't know of any RSS plugins. Such a plugin would not be all that difficult to write, but why bother when you can write an app instead and sell it? One possibility would be a Safari plug-in that uses a 3rd party app for managing the feed. That may be possible.

     

     

    im not sure if you are getting what i have tried to explain several times now the whole thing that makes it better is not having to toggle back and forth between two different apps.

     

    etresoft wrote:

     

     

    So where are you going go? The reality is that this is not that big of a deal. There is a "slow bleed" of users away from Safari, but it has nothing to do with this. Many people are switching to Chrome which apparently already has Safari's behavior. Hard-code RSS users have been using dedicated apps for a long time.

     

     

    i was actually refrring to apple at large. fact is im probably not going to go anywhere tomorrow but the point is that apple has always been the best alternative but if they continue down the path of sacrificing power user features they will just be the same crap as every other pc maker at some point. i have no idea what you mean by that last sentence.

     

     

    etresoft wrote:

     

     

    I will add a Safari plug-in to my "to do" list. Just know that my "to do" list is quite full until next spring.

     

    that sounds awesome! regarding the pubsub thing and sandboxing and some new feature for 10.8.x that seems like alot of speculation  id still say that if they havent made many changes since 2007 and it still works as well as it does 5 years later it says to me that the feature didnt really require much maintenence. in fact i have one anecdotal example of how apple never really had to much work in this regard:

     

    craigslist, for about a 2 year period their feeds were not compatible with safari. i kept hoping a new update would come out for sfari that restore them but it never happened then one day they magically started workign again. both happened due to changes craigslist made due to user complaint apple obviously never gave a rats *** about it. the integrated rss functionality was always a difining and distinguishing feature if you renable the functionality through a plugin i'd expect a lot of fans for your efforts at least.

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,905 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 4:52 PM (in response to ubernaut)

    ubernaut wrote:

     

    i think this is actually more akin to what they did with iDVD at least with iDVD the technology had almost died, RSS is still heavily used throughout the net

     

    No one is disputing the fact that RSS is widely available. RSS is still something of a power-user tool. In that respect, it is similar to iDVD. With RSS feeds, there are technical complications getting the old method working in Mountain Lion. With iDVD, the next technology was Blu-Ray, which Apple skipped due to licensing issues, prefering to put all of their efforts into iTunes over the web and AppleTV. Apple may be trying to do the same with HTML5's notifications, although that is still in early infancy.

     

    im not sure if you are getting what i have tried to explain several times now the whole thing that makes it better is not having to toggle back and forth between two different apps.

     

    Yes. I realize that. It is convenient for users who prefer to have RSS in Safari. But it is impossible to sell a Safari Plug-in through the Mac App Store. You can't sell a Safari extension at all because it is just source code. I spent about 5 months (working part-time) building EtreFeed. That is a lot of effort to ask someone to do for free.

    i was actually refrring to apple at large. fact is im probably not going to go anywhere tomorrow but the point is that apple has always been the best alternative but if they continue down the path of sacrificing power user features they will just be the same crap as every other pc maker at some point. i have no idea what you mean by that last sentence.

     

    I was referring to stand-alone RSS readers and/or Google Reader. Apple doesn't compete in areas where it can't disrupt and dominate. If there is a technical barrier for an Apple solution that is just an also-ran, Apple will drop it.

     

    that sounds awesome! regarding the pubsub thing and sandboxing and some new feature for 10.8.x that seems like alot of speculation  id still say that if they havent made many changes since 2007 and it still works as well as it does 5 years later it says to me that the feature didnt really require much maintenence. in fact i have one anecdotal example of how apple never really had to much work in this regard:

     

    craigslist, for about a 2 year period their feeds were not compatible with safari. i kept hoping a new update would come out for sfari that restore them but it never happened then one day they magically started workign again. both happened due to changes craigslist made due to user complaint apple obviously never gave a rats *** about it. the integrated rss functionality was always a difining and distinguishing feature if you renable the functionality through a plugin i'd expect a lot of fans for your efforts at least.

    My interest in this is to find a way to sell apps through the Mac App Store and then release free add-ons that would otherwise be incompatible with Mac App Store policies and have those add-ons require the Mac App Store product. I'm not sure if it is possible.

  • +om Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2012 9:51 AM (in response to ZORGALISCIOUS)

    Hi, I'm still on Lion, had updated to Safari 6 and now back on 5 again for my feed-needs.

    a couple of days ago I updated Lion to 10.7.5, still have Safari 5 with RSS. Suddenly I was wondering if these 'previous...' and 'page-number' buttons has been here all along underneath the RSS-feeds, when the option "View All" is active. Never seen them before.

    Ofcourse I'm hoping someone at apple is working on a fix, but it could be just a flaw because of the Safari 6/5 switch and OS X updates. So did anyone see these before?

    Screen Shot 2012-10-06 at 13.20.35.png

    Screen Shot 2012-10-06 at 18.27.06.png

  • poddan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2012 12:22 PM (in response to +om)

    Im on SL and Safari 5 and I can see it on the bottom of my feeds if there is several pages..

  • poddan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2012 12:31 PM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft:

     

    " I spent about 5 months (working part-time) building EtreFeed. That is a lot of effort to ask someone to do for free."

     

    "My interest in this is to find a way to sell apps through the Mac App Store and then release free add-ons that would otherwise be incompatible with Mac App Store policies and have those add-ons require the Mac App Store product. I'm not sure if it is possible."

     

    Could kickstarter.com be a way for you to fund the development of the RSS plugin?

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