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Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

65214 Views 888 Replies Latest reply: Mar 31, 2014 1:50 PM by The Art Of Sound RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • ZXC Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 11:45 AM (in response to Pancenter)

    Pancenter wrote:

    Look at the messages on this board, Logic has already moved into the consumer arena, as the upgrade from Garageband...

    A number pro users stay away from this forum becsue it seems some very active members here have too much time on their hands and use it only on doomsday speculation and negative comments. I wish this forum had a more 'active' moderation, because when people eg. talk about Logic going from "a premium professional product at $499.00 to a Prosumer app available only on the app store for $199.00" I'm really losing interest in participating in some of the discussions here. A DAW doesn't bcause a prosumer app because it' is sold via the App store or because th eprice is reduced by it's owners, which happen to have enough cash anyway!

     

    But maybe certain others may get *more* interested by the endless negative specultion which happens betwen every Logic update (keywords: "prosumer", "GarageBand Pro", "Apple only focus on cell phones" etc)?

     

    Such a low price on such a professional products of course means that lots of newbies will be drawns towards using Logic, including prosumers, consumers and young people who have never used a DAW beore. But  that dosn't say anything about how 'pro' Logic is. 3+ years odl Logic still does stuff that no other DAW does.

     

    Some people on some forums - usually people who don't have Logic as their main DAW, but who love to hang out in Logic forums and regularly explain why they prefer another product or why they don'tthink Logic is 'pro' enough for them - would *love* to see many Logic users move over to some other platform.

     

    'Trolls' in forums nowadays work hard to convince others that they are not trolls - so they can keep trolling. One user here, however, here was very clear about his purpose: he encouraged others to spread as much negativity about Logic as possible on internet forums, so people would start to move other to other DAWs, with the apparent intention that this would make Apple work harder on fixing a Logic bug he had struggled with. And of course - if a few people say that Logic isn't 'pro' enough for them - often enough - some people (newbies?) will look at other DAWs - even of Logic works perfectly for them.

     

    Some people definitely appear to try to create self-fulfilling prophecy by repeating that Logic is too consumer-oritented. Meanwhile, lots of pro users work on Logic every day, create music and make money, and never participate in these discussions. Don't confuse their silence as a vote for not-being-happy-with-Logic camp.

  • Nusskappe Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 11:46 AM (in response to ZXC)

    "Tim Cook has stated that there are some good news for Mac Pro customers nxt year, and Apple has recently hired a number of new people to their pro audio team."

     

    ZXC - I heard about that. But this wont solve the Lag issue now.

     

    Audio work is a realtime issue. What was possible with Logic - any kind of modifications during playback - is not possible anymore. Now you have to convince Logic to stop and then carry out your modification and then start playback and hope that it was ok. Over and over again ...

  • ZXC Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 11:55 AM (in response to Nusskappe)

    Nusskappe wrote:

     

    ZXC - I heard about that. But this wont solve the Lag issue now.

    Of course not, but it has been confirmed several times that Apple is working on fixing the lag issue.

     

     

    What was possible with Logic - any kind of modifications during playback - is not possible anymore.

     

    Some people have this problem on 9.17 and Mountain Lion, while others can't recreate it even if they try hard. This means that you are wrong  (about "not possible"), but more importantly: that Logic 9.1.7 + Mountain Lion as such dosn't mean lag problems. It's more complicated than that, and this is probably why the issue isn't resolved (for all users) already.

  • Nusskappe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 12:10 PM (in response to ZXC)

    Are you of the opinion that Apple is concerned to solve problems described in this community? The speculations are a product of vendor ignorance and then of course the community starts to express frustration.

     

    I guess that your right in your opinion but it's difficult to act positive when worries are not taken care of. When I call Apple their first concern is how their support will be paid for. Not long ago an Apple supporter I got on the phone said to me: "If you buy the product again, you will get 3 months support for free." I cant say that I liked this statement.

  • Nusskappe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 12:13 PM (in response to ZXC)

    Of course I'm right about this because I have the problem.

  • ZXC Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 12:48 PM (in response to Nusskappe)

    Nusskappe wrote:

    Are you of the opinion that Apple is concerned to solve problems described in this community?

    I don't have any "opinion" about it, I know that they have people reading forum discussions and know from  sources I have every reason to trust 100% that they are both working on the lag issue(s) and and on other great changes for the future. I even met some Logic developers some time in the 1990s, and was very impressed with they interest in user feedback. I haven't seen anything vaguely similar from people from other companies. Listening to others, being innovative + being backed up by Apple's success is quite a combination. 

    The speculations are a product of vendor ignorance and then of course the community starts to express frustration.

    Which is only fair, of course. It's not the venting I'm talking about, it's the repeated claim that Logic is 'doomed' along with the theory that all Apple employees only think of phones and consumer products, that pro users are ignored and suggestions that Apple doesn't work on issues unless they tell us that they do. Some people repeat stuff like that over and over again, and that's a main reason I and some other don't use this forum more than we do. I guess 99% of all Logic users never visit this forum, because they don't need to.

    I guess that your right in your opinion but it's difficult to act positive when worries are not taken care of.

    Unless you are rather high in the Apple hierarchy, you don't know what they are taking care of, do you? ;-)

     

    When I call Apple their first concern is how their support will be paid for.

    Of course, Logic is practically free (if you are a pro, you can earn enough money to pay for Logic in less than a day), so who should pay for support if the customers don't do it?

     

    And why wouldn't a pro (or amateur) pay pro (support person) to do his work? The good thing about Logic being so inexpensive is that students and others with little money - people who can sort out isues on they own don't need to sponsor the support team if they don't want to.

     

    The difference between the circa $3000 Logic + extras used to cost and today's $199 means that we have a lot of money to use on support if we ned it (compared with the old situation). One simply can't pay less than 10% of the original price and expect that the support team should work for free.

     

    Not long ago an Apple supporter I got on the phone said to me: "If you buy the product again, you will get 3 months support for free." I cant say that I liked this statement.

    I don't know why they said that or why you don't like that they said that, so I have no comment - but your "Of course I'm right about this because I have the problem" only means that you are right about you having that problem.

     

    "Any kind of modifications during playback - is not possible anymore" is not correct, because lots of us are doing "modifications during playback" all the time. People who have followed these threads know that as Apple is working on the lag issue, and we also know that they are working on other great stuff for DAW users (if not, why would the put up ads for more developers knowing about notation, DSP etc?). All is good, except that there's no obvious place to look for info about known Logic issues, and that Apple generally communicate less about what they are working on than most customers probably want.

     


  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 1:07 PM (in response to ZXC)

    Hey Beej so glad your happy about the current situation.

    You are one opinionated fellow these days but it is good to know you've got everyone figured out to your satisfaction.

  • ZXC Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 1:09 PM (in response to Pancenter)
    Hey Beej so glad your happy about the currenty situation.

     

     

    I don't know if Beej has posted that he is happy about the current situation -- but of course it's not a good situation for those who have the lag issue and don't use any of the workarounds (or for Apple), but it's good that Apple is working on it.

  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 1:26 PM (in response to ZXC)

    ZXC wrote:

     

     

    but of course it's not a good situation for those who have it (or for Apple), but it's good that they are working on it.

     

    It will be given top priority after the next few Garageband updates I'm sure.

    Fortunately there are other options for those who wish to step out from under the Apple umbrella. Sonar will be coming to the Mac and DP8 will be coming to PC.

     

    Also, I don't hold to the contention LogicX will be a lesser version of Logic, I actually have high hopes for it, it's probably the only application that would move me to invest in new Apple hardware.

     

    Blue Jay Way-

  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 2:17 PM (in response to ZXC)

    ZXC wrote:

    A number pro users stay away from this forum becsue...........

    Since you desire to get personal, let's take it to email.., I'm on yahoo, can't miss it.

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 2:27 PM (in response to Pancenter)

    Pancenter wrote:

     

    Sonar will be coming to the Mac

     

    Where did you hear that?  If that does happen, it would leave Logic as the only major DAW that isn't cross platform.

  • Nusskappe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 2:37 PM (in response to ZXC)

    Well well - if you have such good contacts to Apple - please convince them to put top priority to this issue.

     

    The support I asked for was related to this issue. I'm not of the opinion that we have to pay for support when it's related to a malfunction.

     

    ZXC - I have enjoyed your comments - now we only have to pray.

  • chorleyman Level 4 Level 4 (1,415 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 3:04 PM (in response to Mike Connelly)

    I've seen that Sonar is being available for Mac, but I can't find out where now, having a quick look. Also Sony Sound Forge is there, as well, that could be a decent combination, but I'm being imaginative rather than certain I'm on to a winner.

  • ZXC Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 3:09 PM (in response to Nusskappe)

    Nusskappe wrote:

     

    The support I asked for was related to this issue. I'm not of the opinion that we have to pay for support when it's related to a malfunction.

     

    Logic probably has hundreds of thousands of users (there were 200,000 Logic users out there when Apple acquired Emagic 10+ years ago). If they should make the decision that every user who want it can get free support if there's a bug that affects many users, they couldn't sell Logic fior $199. If you spend the difference between what Logic originally used to cost and what it costs now on support, you'd probably get more support time than you'd ever need.

     

    But the main issue is probably not lack of free support for maybe ten thousands of users (who paid less thatn what a good plugin costs for the entire Logic package, including plugins and a sound library), but that there's a lag issue which has been around for a while, and that Apple neither has posted a fix or info about the situation (other than in message to indivdual users).

     

    There are reasons to keep info about major releases secret, but I can't see what Apple could lose on making pre-release versions available for a number of people who agreed to try them out knowing that there may be bumps in the road. So - please don't get me wrong: I would have done the whole thing differently than Apple has decided to do it. I would have paid a number of real users to use Mountian Lion and Logic together before Mountain Lion was released, I would have had a large group of 'gamma testers', and maybe even public betas of new Logic versions for a limited period before a new release, and I'd have a warning on Apple's site saying that there are some known issues with the ML/Logic combo which are being worked on, with a recommendation about specific workaroundse etc - even if the lag issue would be exclusively caused by 3rd part drivers, certain types of RAM combinations or something else.

  • Nusskappe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 3:23 PM (in response to ZXC)

    It's not a matter of money! I would pay for a solution but do you really think that the support team has a solution, which is worth paying for?

     

    Why do I spend time on this discussion? The reason is that I cannot secure music deals with current Logic setup. Noone would accept the continous workflow breaks. This issue is absolutely disgusting.

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