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Help! iPad 3 on LTE in UK. Question

9750 Views 85 Replies Latest reply: May 26, 2013 4:13 AM by Noodle8or RSS
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JudgeGledd Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
Currently Being Moderated
Oct 12, 2012 11:42 AM

So, today marks a bit of an epiphany for me.

 

I have the iPad 3 or New iPad. I bought it when it came out here in the UK and it was advertised as 4G.

I understood that it wouldn't work on 4G until a 4G network launched.

 

So, our first 4G network (EE) launches on October 30th and I discover after all this time of waiting that it won't support the Ipad 3 due to the frequencies being different.

 

I can't believe I am the only one who is coming to this realisation and the question has to be, what on earth can be done.

 

I am tech savvy, if the radio in the device won't operate on our LTE frequencies then it won't work unless it has a new radio.

 

What were Apple thinking?

 

Anyway, I digress. Has anyone had any luck pursuing Apple for bad advertising here in the UK?

 

I just got off the phone with Apple support and had a great chat with a guy in the states. He was gobsmacked and called it false advertising.

 

So.... I'm not after a refund, but I think I should be given the opportunity to have a compatible device when one becomes available.

 

Thoughts?

iOS 6, 4G LTE My Arse!
  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 12, 2012 12:54 PM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    Apple pulled ALL advertising of the LTE function within the New iPad almost immediately in the UK.

     

    The tag line has been on ALL printed advertising since launch.

     

    The LTE function is not marketed in the UK and has only ever been a US feature of the iPad.

    They wanted to get an LTE device into their home market, however also a fine 3G device for the rest of the world, and most of the US as well.

     

    The current LTE function works ONLY in the US

     

    And to add the new iPhone 5 will ONLY work on EE networks when they launch.

     

    The current model will not now nor ever work on the proposed LTE bands to be auctioned to O2/Vodafone/3/Hutchinson.

    Those are 800mhz and 2600mhz.

     

    Frankly LTE is in its infancy and frequency allocation is a bigger mess than any previous iteration.

     

    It will be at least another 12-18 months in the UK before LTE is truly up and running in any usable way.

     

    Even then it will be only data and NOT voice.

    Voice calls will remain over 3G or even 2G for some considerable time.

     

    All that said the next iPad and IPhone will almost certainly support 2600mhz.

  • Noodle8or Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2012 10:07 AM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    I am in the same boat! I am tied into a contract for 24months thinking! My contract would be nice and good for when 4G would launch and now I also found this out! I rang orange EE and was told sorry but you won't get an exchange as it has passed it's 14day period, ok may I speak to someone in HR to discuss this further? No. This is as far as you can go.

    Ok can I speak to a manager!? No he isn't on the shop floor ATM... Ofcourse he isn't! So orange as useful as ever anyway I digress!

    It may have been a swift pull down of advertisement? But it was already there! I bought on the premise of this! I even spoke with customer support saying I can't wait for the 4G to launch ! So I feel gutted and I have lost all faith in apple, orange

    Galaxy on 3 it is

  • mrshakeyhandman Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2012 12:26 PM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    I agree totally with you. I queued on launch day for my iPad and was led to believe that it would work on 4G when it arrived in the UK. I think Apple should have some sort of trade-in scheme for loyal customers here. I would be willing to pay a small fee to upgrade to something that will work on a 4G network in the UK!!!

  • andytvcams Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 6:43 PM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    Lets look at some of the facts.

     

    Apple did not pull their advertising they were told to pull it by the ASA ( Advertising standards Authority)

     

    And any company claiming to be a Apple authorised retailer to do the same.

     

    The reason as far as I can assitane that they the ASA assessed the advert and found it was misleading the buying public with Apples claim that the new iPad was 4G when it was clearly not.

     

    I bought the new iPad ( my first always been a Android user ) on the clear understanding that it was 4G or 4G ready

     

    And was assured by the retailer ( not Apple but a well known high street electrical retailer ) that it was 4G even showed me the sticker on the box that it was 4G and to put my mind at rest even pointed it out on the sales receipt which indeed had printed on it 64Gb wifi 4G.

     

    It was only in this past few weeks while talking to my mobile phone provider Orange ( EE ) that I was told  that the iPad never was or never will be 4G..

     

    I'm now waiting for a written reply from the retailer as to what they are going to do about it

    Before I take any further action which I hope i won't have to take.

  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 3, 2012 9:09 PM (in response to andytvcams)

    Andytvcams if you can substantiate your claims,(witness, something written down or recordings help !)

    you might have a case against that well known retailer, for misleading sales but not Apple. And hope its not the one about to go bust !

     

    At the point of launch of the New iPad the UK had NO cleared frequency bands for extensive LTE deployment . Even today the EE (differing trading company to Orange !) are using uniquely reused frequencies from old GPRS networks at 1800mHz and your New iPad can not operate on those frequencies or for that matter even on the next trenche of EU/UK bands that being 2600GHz and 800MHz.

     

    But 4G is a nebulous advertising statement anyway. It NOT a technology in and of its self.

     

    The correct claims are LTE and your New iPad does have the built in receiver for LTE but of a differing frequency band to those being deployed in the UK.This is the reason the Adverts were altered and yes it was at the ASA request.

     

    That said even before the ASA comments the Apple adverts included a notation about LTE frequencies in small print.

     

    As for 4G ready just as nebulous. If you go legal don't refer to this in any way it will weaken your case.

     

    I did my research back in the spring and held off buying this model because it WAS very clear it would never work at any point on LTE frequencies here in the UK.

     

    The UK auction of the main band frequencies STILL has to happen (In November 2012 !) and its yet another YEAR before extensive deployment.

     

    EE have jumped the gun with the refarmed 1800mHZ band and from tests i have seen its little better than the existing 3 network HSDPA 3G service and speeds at this time.

     

    The November iPad update now CAN operate on the UK EE  refarmed LTE network, however even this model will never work on the main yet to be auctioned frequencies !

     

    As I said earlier LTE “4G” is a complete mess, and as someone that relies on mobile communication and Internet access whilst on the move every day for work , i think the UK mobiles need to get robust 3G service on the existing infrastructure in the first place.

     

    All that said what do YOU want are you just greedy and want free iPad - November update perhaps or is it MONEY in this litigious world we live in these days ?

     

    I might add I never take the word of a shop assistant as gospel - THEY lie or simply don't know what they are talking about with regards to technology- Be that Dixons Group/Comet/Carphone Warehouse or phone4U.

  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 2:03 AM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    I am pleased you have a result from Apple.

     

    The salesman is an agent of the retailer- Agreed  and that's why Andy needs to pursue his claim against the retailer  !

     

    Apple complied with the ASA ruling , that retailers salesman didn't and certainly mislead the buyer.

     

    If you bought directly from Apple you have seen the difference - Perhaps the removal of John Browett (and we know where he came from !) is already seeing the restoration of the quality customer service at Apple !

     


  • andytvcams Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 2:24 AM (in response to Keith Doherty3)

    Keith.

    There is still no getting away from the fact that Apple pulled its advertising of the new iPad.

     

    As for not trusting the word of a salesmen he is employed by a company that is a authorised Apple retailer and therefore and that retailer has to follow strict guide lines set out by Apple.

     

    Am I being greedy I don't think so I spent £654 pounds on a product that was being advertised as being 4G when it was not.

     

    Ask yourself the question why have Apple pulled the new iPad and replaced it with the forthcoming iPad 4

     

    Even at Apples press launch they were claiming the new iPad could reach speeds up to  73mbs I think not.

     

    As things stand on the day I purchased the new iPad Apple with their advertising and the information given to me by a company authorised by Apple to sell their products were in breach of the sales of goods act 1979..

     

    That's why I'm claiming against the retailer.

     

    As for me saying the salesman said it was 4G ready why would I not take his word.

     

    At the UK Press launch I have a video were the comment was made ( Inside the new iPad we have 4G so it's ready for the next generation of the Internet ) So do I want the new IPad 4 a week ago I would have said yes but now all of this has left a very bad taste in my mouth.

  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 3:24 AM (in response to andytvcams)

    I think that the calmness and satisfactory result of Judge Gledd is all that is required. He has received a replacement machine which meets his needs those of the expectations of the original purchase decision and is contented.

     

    What you are doing is clearly seeking a compensation claim - Different in every way because you have not given the retailer the opportunity to satisfy your expectations- Upgade your machine to the iPad (Nov 2012) with the EE LTE receiver onboard.(I think they should - Apple clearly will and that's a precedent you might want to persue )

     

    Apple have NOT breached the sale of goods act in ANY way,but your reseller has.

     

    What you bought and what you received in the box match the offer in every way even the LTE receiver IS there (Yes its the wrong frequency- Now that's an issue in and of its self ) but it also works on HSDPA+ which is also classified in the 4G spectrum so if you put 3 network sim in it you may get download speeds in excess of 12-15mbps and uploads of 10MBps + in some areas.

     

    What press launch are you referring to - If you mean the Apple release it clearly domenstrates LTE for Verizon /Sprint and ATT in the US - No mention of international use. You could argue that's the internationalness (if that's a word !) is implied by omission however when Apple show mobile device compatibility in presentations they always display the list of partners and give the press a handout with the regions covered . THIS did not happen with the New iPad launch in spring so there was no omission as far i can see.

     

    As to my earlier comment about LTE ready -such a phase has no legal meaning (it a marketing term) and is irrelevent in any legal case -would weaken your arguement because the machine IS LTE enabled just for a differing market.

     

    There have been many cases of such phasing used in marketing (and I think wrongly !) with other electronics such as TVs- For instance What does HD ready mean, or even Digital ready (Both mean they have the potential to add these features through addon cards that never materialise !)

     

    As to broadband speeds in all honesty I think the industry has a lot of questions to answer

     

    With the exception for fibre optic - (Virgin Media in the main) no ADSL or over the air mobile network services ever perform close to the quoted figures or those ideal maximums because a large number of uncertain variables in the transmission process.

     

    That said i think you Will be successful in your claim - you will get a cash reward and still have an iPad that doesn't meet your expectations and Lawyers with profit nicely.

  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 3:31 AM (in response to Keith Doherty3)

    Typo

    domenstrates  read demonstrates

  • andytvcams Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 3:39 AM (in response to Keith Doherty3)

    Keith I'm not asking for a cash reward just a replacement for what I thought I was getting in the first place.

     

    As for the press launch it was held in the UK.

    And the comment was made by a well known and respected journalist.

  • Gullytale Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 3:54 AM (in response to JudgeGledd)

    I am trying to find out if the iPad3 64GB Wi 4G as advertised in local high street retailers is now or ever going to be compatible with the present EE 4G being released, or with those released in UK next year. I bought the device two weeks ago having no tech savvy. Had diabolical 'customer service' from retailer. Took to Apple yesterday. One guy told me it is definitely 4G compatible. Another guy in same store said this model is not technically 4G compatible. The first guy said, 'It's compatible in other parts of the world.' I asked him what use a car would be to me if I could only drive it in the US. Like another poster, this has left a very, very bad taste.

     

    Can any of you good people help me find out for sure if this is of will ever be compatible with 4g networks in UK. Some technical information would be helpful to take with me. The sites of these retailers imply it will be 4G compatible at a future date.

     

    I don't wish to have spent £659 on a mis sold product either.  I too contacted the ASA.

     

    Thank you.

  • Keith Doherty3 Level 4 Level 4 (1,735 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 4, 2012 4:06 AM (in response to Gullytale)

    Simple the ONLY iPad models with LTE support for the new EE 1800mhz frequency band are

     

    http://store.apple.com/uk/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad

     

    and

     

    http://store.apple.com/uk/buy/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad_mini

     

    Prior models included the spring release New iPad do NOT now or ever will support UK LTE frequencies.

     

    Further the iPad (November 2012) and iPad mini will ONLY work on the EE bands and 3 network (they are leasing 1800 spectrum).

     

    These models will NEVER work on the yet to be auctioned 2600Ghz and 800mHZ bands that will be deployed by the Vodfone/O2 and Hutchinson some time next year. A further model revision will be necessary from Apple for those networks at the approriate time.

     

    link to Ipad LTE support page

     

    http://www.apple.com/ipad/LTE/

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