andrewks9
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Q: Macbook Pro 2008 (4,1) RAM issues

Hello all


I've had some maddening issues with installing new RAM into my Macbook Pro 2008.


Machine: MBP March 2008 (4,1) , 2.5Ghz, 2GB RAM, OSX 10.7.5


I ordered and installed a pair of 2GB RAM sticks from Crucial, to replace the two 1GB RAM sticks I had installed, to bring my machine up to a total of 4GB. Since doing that, the machine would kernel panic repeatedly (and sometimes start-up with three beeps, indicating memory issues). After checking repeatedly that they must be the right RAM modules for my machine, I got the sticks replaced by crucial, but afterwards I still had the same issue, so I determined it must be the machine's fault.


This started an arduous process of testing and trying to fix every aspect of the machine I could think of, resetting the PRAM, repairing permissions trying different combinations of RAM modules, running all the Disk-warrior and TechTool repairs and diagnostics (its clean), running the machine with no third-party devices attached, safe-boot mode, booting from an external drive, and eventually re-installing the entire operating system and running off a clean install. In all the cases, if I had the 4GB in, the machine would kernel panic. I can't begin to list all the things and combinations I tried in order to isolate the issue, but it seemed the only thing I could determine would guarantee the machine to lock-up was to run it with the 4GB.


I also ran rember utility for several hours, several times while the 4GB sticks were in (and it found nothing).



There is a curious pattern however.


Placing both the 2GB RAM (total for 4GB) modules inside the machine will guarantee a kernel panic. Placing one 2GB module and one 1GB module (total of 3GB) also guarantees a crash. However, using either of the 2GB modules alone, in either of the two slots, is perfectly acceptable. Isn't that strange?


It's almost as if the machine is allergic to having both slots occupied at once, but that doesn't make any sense because before buying the 2GB modules, it ran with two 1GB modules, one in each slot.


I'm going to try putting back in the two original 1GB modules just to see if it can still run. If anyone has any suggestions of anything I can try to get this machine working with its 4GB, I will be EXTREMELY grateful!


Thank you,

Andrew


Andrew

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.7.5), Macbook Pro 2008 (4,1)

Posted on Oct 16, 2012 10:26 AM

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andrewks9

Q: Macbook Pro 2008 (4,1) RAM issues

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  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Oct 16, 2012 10:32 AM in response to andrewks9
    Level 10 (271,524 points)
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    Oct 16, 2012 10:32 AM in response to andrewks9

    Your best bet is to talk with Crucial. This can be caused by all sorts of things not the least of which is using RAM rated at a higher speed than called for by Apple specs. Then there are strange problems such as yours where each module works by itself but cannot work in as a pair except with one of the older modules (usually rated at a lower speed.) And, then some Macs just don't seem to like Crucial memory so you might try something different. The brand is not very important, but the memory specs are. Stick with the specs intended for your model.

     

    Other sources for memory are DataMem and OWC.

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Oct 16, 2012 10:57 AM in response to Kappy
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    Oct 16, 2012 10:57 AM in response to Kappy

    I tried running from 1GB + 1GB, and it ran fine for a few hours, but upon waking from sleep I got the dreaded 3 beeps. This absolutely never happens otherwise, so I know where the problem lies now. The machine is back onto a single 2GB stick and running fine.


    My machine won't run with both slots used. I don't know if that is only a hardware problem, if it could be firmware or even some type of software bug, but that is where the issue is.


     

    The RAM I ordered is the right one for my machine, according to the crucial website, and also to their ram scanning tool. They are 2GB 200-pin DDR2 SODIMM 667Mhz sticks, and I'm quite sure those are the right ones for my machine. I will contact them and point them to this thread and se what they say though.

     

    And remember that in this case, it doesn't work with an older module either. 1GB + 2GB crashes. It eventually crashes if I have both slots occupied.

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Oct 16, 2012 11:12 AM in response to andrewks9
    Level 10 (271,524 points)
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    Oct 16, 2012 11:12 AM in response to andrewks9

    If it works fine with the original RAM but not the new RAM, then there's most likely a problem with the new RAM, and not with your slots.

     

    You could have a defective new module or they aren't matched pairs (or they are.) Too many possibilities to know exactly why they won't work. I'd just replace them with two other new modules preferably from a different brand.

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Oct 16, 2012 11:54 AM in response to Kappy
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 16, 2012 11:54 AM in response to Kappy

    Hi Kappy,

    I think you misunderstood my last post. It doesn't work with the original modules anymore either.

    Any configuration that involves both RAM slots being occupied simultaneously guarantees a crash, whichever modules I use.

    Any configuration that involves just a single RAM slot being occupied with the other one empty works fine.

     

    I am running it with a single 2GB module right now.

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Oct 16, 2012 12:01 PM in response to andrewks9
    Level 10 (271,524 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 16, 2012 12:01 PM in response to andrewks9

    Yes, I did misunderstand. Sorry. Then you may have a slot or motherboard problem, although you can't completely overlook a problem with the OS X installation. Or the modules are not properly seated in the slots. Beeping on startup is usually a sign of bad memory or defective slots.

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Oct 17, 2012 1:44 AM in response to Kappy
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    Oct 17, 2012 1:44 AM in response to Kappy

    Yep - I realise it could be any of these problems, and figuring out which it might be is what i would like to have some help in determining.

     

    I will try booting from a fresh install on an external hard-drive, which should rule out any OS issues. Does anybody know if that is sufficient, or if it means there could still be firmware issues?

     

    The 3 beeps I've read is a RAM problem - but I don't know if it means the actual RAM sticks are wrong, if it could indeed be the motherboard, etc.

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Oct 17, 2012 9:47 AM in response to andrewks9
    Level 10 (271,524 points)
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    Oct 17, 2012 9:47 AM in response to andrewks9

    Here are the support articles:

     

    Intel-based Mac Power On Self Test RAM error beeps

    Power On Self-Test Beep Definition - Part 2


    Three beeps means "no good banks." Could be the modules, could be the slots. It's not specific.

  • by All_Done,

    All_Done All_Done Oct 24, 2012 11:47 AM in response to andrewks9
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 24, 2012 11:47 AM in response to andrewks9

    Hi Andrew,

     

    I have the exact problem as you described (same hardware and situation).  Now I'm only running the MBP with one 2-GB ram.

     

    Are you running with Mountain Lion?  Have you fond the fix for it?

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Oct 27, 2012 3:13 AM in response to All_Done
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2012 3:13 AM in response to All_Done

    kappy: Thanks for the articles. I get the three-beeps on startup, but only sometimes. Other times it all boots up fine, but then kernel-panics randomly after several hours. Unfortunately the articles don't describe any way of trouble-shooting this.

     

    Does anybody know what exactly "no good banks" means? I couldn't find any information.

     

    All_Done: Hey there. I'm running Normal-Lion, 10.7.5. I haven't found a fix yet. I wonder whether the fact that you have the same problem means that it's generic to this model and we are stuck, but if most users of this model had the same problem I think it would be more well-known. I only found one other thread, quite an old one, about this issue: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2038293?start=0&tstart=0

     

     

    Any ideas from anyone as to what I can test? Any software to test the "banks", or slots? The ram modules themselves seem to pass the rember tests.

     

    Should I post one of the kernel panic logs here?

     

    Thanks to all

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Oct 27, 2012 10:19 AM in response to andrewks9
    Level 10 (271,524 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 27, 2012 10:19 AM in response to andrewks9

    I would be willing to bet on simply bad memory. A sporadic problem like you describe is more likely caused by memory modules than slots.

     

    "No good banks" means the system was unable to find any memory at startup.

     

    Clearly, your first thing to try is to remove one of the memory modules. See what happens. If you still have problems then remove the remaining module and reinstall the one your removed. See how it goes. If the problem goes away, then you've identified the bad module. Or you could simply buy new RAM and replace both old modules.

  • by All_Done,

    All_Done All_Done Oct 27, 2012 10:47 AM in response to Kappy
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2012 10:47 AM in response to Kappy

    Hi Kappy,

     

    You won the bet!  I continue to swap the Ram chip and was able to isolate that one ram is causing me the problem.  Went to a local store to get aonther 2Gb Ram chip and it's been working for the past several days without any issue.  It's definitely the bad Ram.

     

    andrewks9: Try different Ram.

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Oct 28, 2012 2:26 AM in response to Kappy
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 28, 2012 2:26 AM in response to Kappy

    Hi Kappy,

    I tried this already, before posting here (I think I described this in my original post).

     

    I can run off either of the two modules individually. Indeed, I've been running off of one 2GB module for months, and it's fine. It works with either of the two modules, individually.

     

    It's just when I put in two at the same time that it goes wrong.

     

    And, I ALREADY got these modules replaced by Crucial. I had the same problem with the first ones they sent me, so naturally I assumed bad RAM and got them replaced under warranty. With the new ones, same issue. This is why I am hesitant to buy new RAM again. Could they really have sent bad RAM twice?

     

    Glad it's working for you All_Done, let us know in a couple more days/weeks if youre still running ok

  • by x99,Helpful

    x99 x99 Dec 31, 2012 5:30 PM in response to andrewks9
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 31, 2012 5:30 PM in response to andrewks9

    Hey Andrew

     

    I know this exact issue also. I have documented some of my trials here:

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/17015126#17015126

     

    I updated to the 4 GB back in '08 and it drove me crazy. One 2GB worked fine, a 2+1 arrangement also was fine, but 2x2 GB just crashed. Despite ram tests etc I could find no reason for the error. I'm 100% sure it is not  related to dodgy RAM.


    Recently though I am able to use the 4GB without crash, so long as I put my MBP to sleep when done. I have been doing this for months. Sleep allows me to operate with no issue, however as soon as I shut down, when I boot up again I will ALWAYS get another kernel panic within the first 10 or so mins of logging in. I have come to expect it to the point that when I do shut down now I dont do anything after boot up other than surf the web until I get the KP. Then I go through the reboot phase and can do any task with confidence. It is such a strange and massively frustrating issue but I have learned to live with it.

     

    No one has been able to help me on these boards in 4 years. This is the first time I've seen someone report a similar issue. There have been many tell me it is software or RAM related but if that is the case, using with the sleep mode would not work. I can't explain why putting to sleep works fine but give it a try. I doubt you wil see an update from apple save you from going nuts.

  • by andrewks9,

    andrewks9 andrewks9 Jan 1, 2013 2:53 AM in response to x99
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 1, 2013 2:53 AM in response to x99

    Hey x99, thanks for the reply. I read through your post. Good to hear I'm not totally alone I guess. Getting my panic logs dissected by someone on the board is the last thing I have to try, other than replacing the hardware.

     

    I'll see if I can get the machine to run using your sleep method. The main difference I see so far, is that 2+1 Gb modules don't work for me either. I can only have one module in at a time.

     

    I re-ran the memtests recently, ("memtest all 4") on each 2GB stick individually, in each slot (so I did the tests 4 times) and it didn't find a single error. However, I then tried to run the tests with 2+2GB, both sticks, and I the machine panicked during the tests, in both slot combinations.

     

    I recently upgraded to Mountain Lion, so perhaps there is a tiny chance that it'll be fixed now. I'll give that a shot.

     

    My current solution has been to just forget about 4GB and run on 2.

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