Currently Being ModeratedNov 8, 2012 5:39 PM (in response to mittense)
shadow82x, I believe you are right. I have used the Samsung screen for a few hours now (switched from LG today, see my post from before). No backlight bleeding, no image retention, no dead pixels, no stuck pixels, BUT it is slightly yellow towards the bottom of the screen. However, I believe that this is due to the worse viewing angles of the Samsung screen: It is not an IPS screen, the LG was an IPS screen with better viewing angles. The yellow tinge on the Samsung disappears if I move my head lower or higher, which suggests that it appears due to a limited viewing angle. The Samsung screen also seems to be worse at displaying gradients (-> banding), but equal to non-Retina MacBook Pros, which also don't use IPS screens.
Either way, I don't regret switching to the Samsung panel. It would have been nice to have a fully working Retina IPS screen without image retention, but it seems that this is not an option at this point. I will stick with the laptop until the next generation comes out and see if future screens will be any better. I have used the colour calibration tool in the display settings to adjust the colours slightly, as the standard calibration of the Samsung panel seems to be way too yellow in general. I have adjusted it to a point where the yellow tinge / colour shift due to limited viewing angle is less noticeable.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 8, 2012 5:40 PM (in response to mittense)
Samsung made the panels in the iPad 3. Uneven yellowing was a pretty common thing on these screens. I saw it many times. It was possible to get a perfect one, but you had to work at it. Maybe the technology is just ahead of its time.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 8, 2012 5:50 PM (in response to Usmaak)
It also seems that LG is unable to produce IPS screens for the MBP with a resolution this high that don't have image retention issues, so yes, I think the technology is still very "fresh". Apple often chooses two or three different screen manufacturers, however I don't believe they have used two different screen technologies on the same product before. Maybe Samsung cannot make IPS screens in this resolution, or maybe Apple specifically went for a mix of the two technologies, as they come with different "evils". I guess it's up to us to choose which "evil" to put up with.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 12:57 AM (in response to cschmeer)
I have two 15" Retina MBPs on my desk tonight. Both are 2.7Ghz/16GB/768GB build-to-order units. One belongs to my employer and has a Samsung screen. The other one I purchased for myself. It arrived this morning, and it has an LG screen. I made some measurements on these devices which might be of interest to people reading this thread.
The RMBP/Samsung has been in light use for a couple of months. The RMBP/LG was plugged in and allowed to burn in for a few hours, displaying a mix of photos, uniform gray desktop, and the checkerboard image retention test pattern at http://iva-soft.com/gray/
Neither unit currently shows image retention.
I set both screens to max brightness, then calibrated and profiled them with a Datacolor Spyder4Elite. Target was 2.2/6500K.
Contrast ratio = 332.7 / 0.42 = 792
Gamut = 98% sRGB
Contrast ratio = 220.8 / 0.29 = 761
Gamut = 99% sRGB
Very similar numbers, as were the other calibration measurements. When placed side-by-side, with both units showing the same high quality photos, the displays are hard to tell apart. The LG has a deeper black, but the Samsung has a brighter max, and a barely noticeable greater contrast range. Saturation levels and white points are comparable after calibration. When I loaded a black desktop, neither unit had objectionable levels of light bleed on the edges. The LG showed slightly less variation of color and luminance with viewing angle. I did not notice any yellow areas or variations in color across either screen. I wonder if the yellow tint observed by some people could be temporary - due to partially cured bonding material in the display sandwich. This has been seen on some other Apple products, and usually disappears after a few days.
Bottom line: both screens are superb. I could happily live with either. But I am concerned about reports that the image retention on the LG can show up and grow worse after months of use. I plan to use this machine for some very finicky Photoshop and microscopy image analysis work. So I will probably return the LG, and ask Apple about my options. I don't have time to send in for a replacement screen every few months. So if they can't find a Samsung for me, I will just wait for the next product cycle.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 2:00 AM (in response to saumil)
You have similar experience to mine. Check out my previous posts for more details.
To all folks out here, just be persistent and polite coz afterall, the Applecare folks are merely acting upon explicit instructions from their "higher HQ" (or the lack of). Also ask to speak with their "senior tech" coz you'll get a better picture (the initial people I spoke with eventually conceded that it was "technical" and linked their senior tech with me anyway). So cut the frustrating part of repeating the same thing over and over again to people who are not likely to understand "technical details". Then, with their very own tech people's "blessings", just bring it on back to the customer relations people for them to followup.
In the event that the person you spoke with does not seem to be able to help you, just insist on esculating. Remember there is no such thing as "everyone are the same" in Applecare's call centre. There are always someone higher up with better authority to help you. I esculated my case 2 "levels" up (still within applecare) coz of poor response/knowledge. I am currently corresponding with a new "senior" relations officer who seemed responsive and able to offer me options. The experience was difference.
And if all else fails, there are always Tim's very own executive relations team to help you out.
Hope this helps.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 2:11 AM (in response to hotmaj)
Hi, can you please tell me what is your "production number" according to this website: http://www.appleserialnumberinfo.com ? I'm interested in what is the number of this unit built that week. I have a new replacement in shipment, from week 45, number 815. Wonder if there is any chance of Samsung
Anybody else got their Mac in that week 45/ around 800's number?
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 3:30 AM (in response to cschmeer)
After avidly following this discussion since the beginning I thought that I’d add my thoughts to what can only be described as an overwhelming fiasco. Let me caveat the following by saying that this is purely my opinion and reaction to what has been written here by so many of you.
Everything about the MBPr, from the slim form factor, retina display, lack of optical drive and SSD appeals to me. It is exactly what I’m looking for to replace my late 2008 MBP. While still in relatively good working order my current machine is nearing the end of its life and I’m in the position to upgrade.
Thankfully (I guess), I had screen issues with my 2008 MBP and eventually had the whole system replaced but it was an incredibly painful process and isn’t something I ever wanted to go through again. The fact that Apple then released the Unibody MBP a few months later really got my back up. I learnt from that experience to pay a little more attention to refresh rumours and to also check the forums for any early teething problems. Which is why I’ve been following this thread for months now.
When the MBPr was released I put together an online spec with some add-on’s that I would need and the order came out at £3467.99 (that’s $5543.23 or 4344.90 EUR according to our friend google). The spec is 2.7/16/768 + Superdrive, AppleCare and Thunderbolt to Ethernet.
This image retention issue is laughable. The problem is clearly documented by a significant number of consumers and a resolution is also clearly nowhere in sight. For those who have followed this thread from the beginning, I too have been through the periods of optimism; firstly hoping that I might strike lucky with a Samsung screen only to then hear a number of reports that this screen isn’t without it’s issue either. More recently there was optimism that an unannounced hardware refresh might also solve the LG panel problem too. So far and from the reports here, to place an order for the MBPr you are entering into a lottery. Now, I haven’t placed an order but I have seen the problems of both screens in person both in store and with friends machines. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through this lottery process not when I’m looking to spend nearly £3500.
For me, I’m opting out of this release. I love the concept of this machine and if someone could give me an acceptable level of guarantee that I’d get what I’m paying for – I’d be happy to give apple my money. So far, it seems this is not possible.
So for me, as many on this thread have also suggested, I’m making my voice heard with my wallet. For now, apple, you don’t get my cash. I’ll wait until the next hardware refresh – hopefully sooner than later and check back in then to see if things are better.
It is such a shame that the issues in getting this conceptual machine to market is having such an impact on consumers. This whole Beta-Testing with consumers at a hardware level is shoddy and in my opinion unethical. The difference in customer care from Apple is worrisome and from many posts here clearly distressing.
For those of you that have not found a resolution I hope that Apple does the right thing by you and you’re able to finally get what you thought you were paying for. For anyone else that has been sitting on the fence for months like me, I hope my thoughts help you make your mind up one way or the other.
Best of luck to you in getting the machines you desire.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 4:44 AM (in response to DB-5)
You are exactly in the same position as I am. 2008 MBP. But in contrast to you, I bought a rMBP as soon as it was released, got it replaced 3 times (and the folks at Apple Care over the phone where much nicer than the Apple Retail Store) and finally gave up, got my money back. I am waiting for an upgrade next year. Since this IR problem has been going on since months now, I don't think it will be fixed at all in this generation of rMBPs. Good luck for everybody else trying.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 4:50 AM (in response to DB-5)
I totally agree with you and tkxdev. I made the same decision as you, and have a 2008 MBP which I'm going to make do with as long as possible at this point. I was really disappointed about the 13" rMBP, because I even would have bought that one, but I don't have enough time or money to fight these battles with Apple.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 5:37 AM (in response to SitaCh)
I am in the same position here, I wanted to upgrade to a 15 inch Macbook pro from my trusty old 2009 Macbook pro, but given the IR problems I will stick with my trusted workhorse until Apple has resolved the issue.
Given that I was burned once with a non working first gen macbook air, which never was bugfixed until the second rev. I am not really a person who easily jumps into first gen apple products anymore.
I also doubt that Apple will be able to resolve the issue within this generation.
They have the problems of having Samsung lost as producer by the end of the year and I am not sure if Sharp can be able to replace their Samsung supply chain entirely of if at all. And everyone knows that the LG screens which they now use as replacement produce the IR. So I do not see any fix for the issue this generation.
And given that they now use the problematic LG screens also in the 13 inch macbook pros it does not look good for the immediate future, probably their iDevices soon also will get the LG retina screens with image retention.
The question really comes down on how fast they either LG can fix the issue or Sharp can take over. Apples hands are pretty much bound in this issue since they do not produce the screens themselves and by suing Samsung left and right they shot themselves now into the foot. (Not that they probably even won´t bother)
Anyway holding off makes sense, Intel is going to release a new processor gen next year and Sharp has some amazing display tech in the pipeline, so holding off for another 1-2 years by now really makes sense.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 7:18 AM (in response to Werner P.)
im in the same position as you guys.
my macbook pro is from 2006! i bought two MBPrs and now i give up because of three reasons:
1)the screens are faulty, ghosting
2) the internal graphics is not good enough for this screen. the retinas are too sluggish
3) my experience with the first versions of any apple product hasnt been good
therefore im hoping to give it a try with the next update when haswell is out.
by then certainly 2) and 3) will be solved at least.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 11:16 AM (in response to mittense)
Hey everyone, I'm on hold atm with Apple... so I thought I'd post on this forum... the one with 800,000 views... wait... did they reset it? I guess they did. This guy on the phone (and the other 6 I've talked too) have never heard of this issue. Funny eh?
Anyways, I bought a rMBP back when it first launched. I had a massive IR problem where the screen would flicker and images would break up into pieces. The laptop itself would also crash. Now, I've decided to try again with the rMBP... after 3 replacements I'm back to the same Apple support, being on hold. I've had an LG screen each time, and this one sounds like it's munching on a cookie when you press the bottom. + I have image ghosting.
I'm on the phone now, really makeing no progress. And I really don't like how this forum's views got reset... it's really sneaky what they're doing....
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 11:27 AM (in response to mittense)
Well, I got my screen replaced in Barcelona Apple Store. Got Samsung screen now. No IR at all. I can say colors are different a bit, but I can't say it's better or worse than LG. It's just different. Maybe a bit warmer, but I easily fixed it with calibration. I think warmer white in fact is more natural than bluish on LG screen. Also I tested different levels of gray color to be sure it is neither yellow-gray, nor blue-gray. So now I can work with this display.
Replacement took 25 hours, as they had displays in stock. Apple serveice is excellent.
PS I tested displays on 15" and 13" rMBP in the Apple store. 15" had IR and terminal said it's LG display. But two of 13" hadn't IR or at least it didn't appear within 5 minutes of chessboard test and quite bright lighting in the Store.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 11:32 AM (in response to mittense)
Apple must be working on this... I got an unsolicited call from engineering, apparently from my Apple ID associated with a previous post I made in this thread. We haven't connected yet, but it's a positive sign that they're looking at this thread and trying to address the issue.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 9, 2012 11:38 AM (in response to techkid1000)
Interesting, I have the "sounds like it's munching on a cookie" problem on my latest replacement as well in addition to image retention. Let's hope this is not their next problem. My third replacement is on its way now :-/
Here is the sound my MacBook makes when pressing on the bottom (or just resting my hands there): http://cl.ly/1i0e1t2P2q0y
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