1 2 3 4 Previous Next 91 Replies Latest reply: Jun 1, 2014 6:35 PM by tokyojerry1207 Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • 15. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    aschmid Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    @ForceFour:

     

    1. That's the beauty of a NAS (Network Attached Storage) platform independent. Once it's on their it can be accessed from various OS.

     

    2. Any OS X system that can run iTunes can act as a media server for your ATVs.

     

    3. Mac Mini is a valid option don't get me wrong. If you happy to shell out $600 to have a system there as iTunes server running 24x7 go ahead. That's the best most expensive solution.

     

    NOTE: Another thing on the Mac Mini setup to consider is user account. I have several iMacs as I have several users in my home. Each have their own iTunes library. As they are on different system they can stream from different system. If you server them all via ONE Mac Mini you'll have to setup different user account and log into each one and startup iTunes at least once per reboot to get this working.

     

    4. Not sure what you are asking here but if you want to stream to ATV you need iTunes. If you want to stream to your PS3 or XBOX360 you can Synology DLNA server to that. You can setup a many folders/shares as you want on your NAS box to keep the content.

     

    5. If you want that you just move your iPhoto library to a shared folder on the Synology box and then tell iPhoto to open the iPhoto library from there. You need to be on network so won't work for laptop off network. ATV get their photos also through iTunes to my understanding.

     

    NOTE: I keep my iPhoto libraries of different users locally and just copy them back to Synology box from time to time to have a central repository. I can then serve them through the Synology DLNA servers. iPhoto does not work well with several libraries and get's easily corrupted.

  • 16. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    iPerfection Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi,

    There are now some very interesting discussions going on this thread. Let me see if I can help with some of your questions.

    1) you won't have any issues with the synology as it is a NAS device it doesn't have to be formatted in the same way as a mac. You setup a folder structure and create network shares that can be connected to from pcs ans macs alike.

     

    2) what to serve with this is probably the biggest question with several answers depending on your preference. I have a bit of a combination going on. On the synology there are a number of ways you can share media using DNLA / upnp

    So devices like Xbox or PS3 can access directly. The problem is the user interface isn't slick, jus like browsing folders.

    You obviously have iTunes, great for music and multi room setups with the Apple remote app for instance. But limited when it come to movies and tv and no live tv pvr if you want that. plex is great and has a lot of supporters. I'm not an expert but i do know Plex has 2 main parts the backend server which manages the media and then the front end which is the slick user presentation. You can have these parts together on the same machine but you can now run the plex server directly on the synology which is a great idea for centrally managing your media.

    I have only dabbled with plex at the moment and am sterling away as I want my solution to include live tv and pvr. This is not the main use for plex, there are some add ons which I have not tried but understand they are not as slick as some others. I will mention some more about tv later.

     

    3) where to manage the media, this for me is where the synology comes in, I personally don't like iTunes 'managing' and 'organising' everything for me. I like to know what I have, where it is, how it's tagged and importantly want the choice to move away from iTunes at a later stage if I want to or share my media through other means at the same time.

    So what I do is have a number of media shares on the synology music, movies, home videos, pictures, tv. I can shares there via upnp, DNLA. I also point a iTunes instance running on a mac mini at the same shares but I don't pull the data into the iTunes library. This gives you the full iTunes capability of streaming to other apple devices, syncing iPads etc. I have also moved the iTunes library (the actual database, album art, playlists etc) to another shared on the synology called iTunes funny enough. There are forums on how to do this but if anyone is interested I can post something.

    So this way the mac mini is just a presentation device with no data on at all. So you can replace without having to find and move your data. Also another good point on this is that you can have more than one iTunes server using the same media and iTunes library/database. So instantly you get the exact same iTunes library, playlists, album art etc. on more than one iTunes server. Any updates you do appear on the others. There are some gotchas with this though. Firstly all the itunes servers need to see the same media shares. You can't edit manage the iTunes on more than one machine at a time you have to close the others while you make changes on one, once you make the changes you can then reopen the others. I have also experienced issues with doing this method between macs and pcs, I think because the sharing path for the media between macs and pcs look slightly different so when I try to use on a pc it looses the media, but I will look at this at some point.

     

    4) home videos etc, this is where other products such as plex, media portal and xbmc come into there own. I have been playing around with a few things and am now working on XBMC, probably one of the first media centres back in the day when you could hack the black Xbox stick in a massive 120GB disk and install xbmc. Probably where Microsoft got there media centre from. Anyway I digress, xbmc does everything, music, videos, tv etc. what I particularly like is the ability to integrate live tv pvr functions into a single media centre front end. I want to ditch my bt vision box, and have everything accessible from a single interface that my mum could use.

    I am currently focusing on the tv side and have been playing with a number of options. I do have a win7 server with dual tunes running media centre and media centre extender on the xboxe and want to re create this and switch that big beast off. I've played with The eyetv tuners on the mac min, ok but didn't want multiple interfaces, you can get a plax add on for eyetv but I understands it isn't the smoothest. Then I stumbled across a couple of pvr solutions that can be run on the synology as backend servers and then connected to via multiple front ends such as iPad apps, xbmc for instance. Thes are DVBLink and tvheadend, both of which can be installed on the synology and you use a USB tv tuner plugged into the  synology also do there own 'video station' but ther are no media centre plugins yet.

    I have tried DVBLink and tvheadend, I could not find any tv channels in tvheadend but have had success with DVBLink and also with the xbmc plugin. So I have now ordered 2 x DVBLINK-T2 tuners so I can get free view HD and plan to build this over the weekend using DVBLink and xbmc. 

     

    Now here is the really intesting part (for me anyway) xbmc runs on several platforms, not just macs and pcs. There seems to be a really version version that people have running on the rasberry pi. For those of you that don't know it is a very cheap £20 micro computer with HDMI output and smaller than the ATV. designed For education and hobbiests there is some good stuff coming out on these. I bought one a while back to have a play with and may just have found the perfect use for it.

     

    So if this works, then I am thinking the mac mini will not need to be on much at all, and I may just use for a central music store and around the house streaming, which seems a waste for a 16GB i7 with 2 x 1TB hdd but lets see how the xbmc And the pi work out.

     

    5) photos, again down to preference, once you have a picture share on the synology you can use what you like, plex, xbmc, synology has something called photo station. You can use one or many tools to share and present to same source.

     

    Just a couple More points around synology if you haven't got one yet consider what you want to use it for, if you want to use it for running service on such as tv pvr etc, then pick the more powerful options, I have the ds212+ which has better processor and memory. I don't use raid anymore, I used to but decided that I still needed to have backup somewhere else and there was a big cost difference in running  4 bay synology with raid 5 (you need to use the right disks, don't use Green disks for raid so disks will be more expensive) opposed to running a 2 bay with no raid. 1 have 2 x 4TB disk so have a 8TB NAS. As I fill it up I will get a second as a backup and keep it in a different part of the house and sync them.

    You can also use synology as a time machine, plus there are countless other services you can run on them such as CCTV, mail server, BitTorrent server. They are a real powerhouse.

     

    Anyway hope you have found this useful. Happy to post more on my own progress as I go and if anyone wants anymore information on the above I will try to help.

  • 17. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    Tpx Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Yes, I'd like to move my iTunes library on the NAS, but I have to be sure that it can work! Thank You.

     

    On the other hand I'm a little worried about moving my IPHOTO library on the NAS. They say that the library needs to sit on a disk formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled)... Did you move your iPhoto library to the NAS?

  • 18. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    Forcefour Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    Happy this discussion is still going on.  It has proven quite informative and helpful to me personally and it seems like quite a few of us are on similar pages with what we are doing or would like to do.  Great minds ... right?

    iPerfection - your case fits mine very closely and along the way I have had many of the questions you have.  You are a bit ahead of me in action and so I appreciate your feedback as somone who very closely mirrors my own situation.

    Well - I'm pretty much ready to go now.  The new iMacs have been announced, my current pc hard drives are running out of space and my HP MediaSmart server is also running out of space and getting long in the tooth to boot.  Time to begin my transition. Based on the information I have been able to glean from research, much of it from this thread ... here is how I am planning it out.  Please comment, shoot holes in it, tell me I'm on the right track, or just provide friendly advice, pitfalls etc.

     

    Step 1:  Purchase the NAS.  I am looking at the Synology DS1812+ running 3-4 WD Red 3TB drives to start.  I may never need more than this but it's nice to know it's there if I do.

    Step 2: Purchase an Airport Extreme and swap it in as a replacement for my aging D-Link router.

    Step 3: Purchase one switch capable of taking advantage of the link aggregation feature of the DS1812+.  I would be swapping these in for a current, active D-Link 8-port switch that does not have this capability sitting on top of my router at present.  If anyone has an idea on a good switch for the job ... I'm all ears.

         Note:  I have had my house wired throughout with Cat-6 and a couple other D-Link 8-port switches in other      rooms and I intend to take advantage of wired vs wireless wherever possible.

    Step 4:  DS1812+ connected to the Airport Extreme. move my iTunes, photo, home video and document libraries to the NAS.  The iTunes application will still run on the pc until that 'Coming Soon' banner on the Apple Store is replaced by an actual 'Buy' button.

    Step 5: Purchase iMacs (2) and put them in place.  Once this has been done I will be transitioning anything of remaining value not already on the NAS from my PC to it (bookmarks?). 

    Step 6: point the iTunes instances on the iMacs to the iTunes library on the NAS.

    Step 7:  point the iPhoto instances on the iMacs to the photo libaries on the NAS.

     

    I'm thinking this covers me for the primary transition and that I should be able to stream all iTunes audio and video to the AppleTVs with via an instance of iTunes running on an iMac.  From here I would look at the following additional considerations / questions:

     

    - how can I incorporate Plex?  The more I read about it Plex, the I like what it offers.  Downside appears to be that it is not AppleTV friendly.  I really like the AppleTV front end and I really would rather not access my media nor streaming services via PS3 or X-Box (due in part to the for the less than slick user interface you mentioned as well as that I would rather not have to switch sources based on which media I will be wathcing?.  AppleTV does provide access to Netflix, Hulu and YouTube but does not provide access to the Amazon Instant nor many others.  Too bad.  If AppleTV had the source coverage of a Roku and the ability to stream different video formats it might just be the perfect streaming device.  As it does not, I believe Plex may provide that access with the ability to AirPlay it to my television via the AppleTV. 

    - Backup options.  I intend on taking advantage of Time Machine for the iMacs.  Really looking hard at using Synology's own SHR.  It looks like a good option that will an appropriate level of protection.  I assume that my shared media folders will become part of this but

    - do I want to record tv?  What would be my source?  I have DirecTV now and I am quite happy with it.  No intention on dropping it and so I'm not sure that I would need this but I love options.

    - big question for me here.  How would I create a process for offloading photos and videos taken on iPhones and iPads to Diskstation?  I would want to create an appropriate process for doing this as well as for grabbing photos and videos from the Diskstation from those devices when needed.  Can this NAS work with iCloud and / or PhotoStream in any way?

    - Surveillance.  I plan to add some cameras and would generally just want to figure out how this works.  Looks like the Diskstation has a nice option where this is concerned. 

     

    iPerfection:  maybe I misunderstood but in #3 you seemed to indicate that you had multiple instances of your iTunes library on your NAS.  Is this the case?  I am referring specifically to this portion

    'I also point a iTunes instance running on a mac mini at the same shares but I don't pull the data into the iTunes library. This gives you the full iTunes capability of streaming to other apple devices, syncing iPads etc. I have also moved the iTunes library (the actual database, album art, playlists etc) to another shared on the synology called iTunes funny enough.'

     

    Thanks all. Let's keep this one alive if possible.

     

    Tpx:  from my research (and it's only research at this point) you should have no problem housing your iTunes library on your NAS and running it from your iTunes application on your Mac.  I believe the answer is the same for your photo libary.  Pix can sit on the NAS, application sits on your Mac. 

  • 19. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    Forcefour Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    anyone comment on my plan / steps?  Just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

  • 20. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    Forcefour Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    BTW - somone in another forum indicated the following.  Is this true?  Maybe I am misunderstanding but I thought that this is one of the items we have been discussing as an option.

     

    iTunes requires that the iTunes Library folders be on a  local drive. By that I mean the xml files must be on a drive connected to your computer, it cannot reside on a network drive.  You can store all of your media on a network drive, and everything will work just fine.

  • 21. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    iPerfection Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Forcefour,

    Sorry not been on for a little while. In reply to your last question not it is not true that the iTunes library folder needs to be on the local drive. I have my .xml files on a synology share.

    By default itunes will create the itunes folder locally but you can press the option key while opening itunes which then give you an option to either open an existing itunes library or to create a new one where you like.

    This is how you can get more than one machine running itunes pointing to the same library.

  • 22. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    iPerfection Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Forcefour,
    Just been looking at your post.

    Firstly I haven't progressed my build much as I have been playing around with TV on the synology. I have been playing with TVHEADEND and DVBLINK with usb tuners plugged into the syonlogy but I have been having issues, but that;s another post.

    Here are some thoughts on your queries.
    I terms of switches. does depend on how much money you want to spend. Coming from an IT background I run a cisco switch. I also managed to get hold on one cheap. I use a cisco 2950 24 x 100mb ports and 2 x 1gb ports. I have my synology plugged into one of the gig ports and each otehr device in a 100mbps port. thiis should be more than enough if you stream HD video you probably don't need any more than 50mbps so a 1gb port is more thn enough even if running several streams at once. you are more likely to hit limitations on Disk throughput first.

    Step 4: not sure I know what you mean, have I missed something new coming?

    I haven't played with Plex yet, as I have been focusing on TV, which is something that Plex doesn't really do but I understand it is great for video, movies etc.

    I still have my Apply tV sealed in the box, as not sure whether I will use it. Like you I really want a single front end and not switch between different app. So it really depends on how I get on with the live TV. If I get this working then I will likely look to use some form of XBMC running on some suitable hardware. another option I am playing with is the rasberry pi. But I need to get the backend working properly first.


    As for you comment about multiple instances of itunes library. That's not what I meant, maybe the way I wrote it.

    I have a single itunes folder (single set of xml files and album art etc.) and I have more than one computer pointing to it, so each machine has the same database, album art, playlists and so on.You need to make sure that the path the the media is store in is the same for each device for this the work. I have all my media shares on the synology (Music, Movies, Home videos etc.) and then I point my machines to them.

    Hope this helps. please keep contributing

  • 23. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    aschmid Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    @Forcefour your steps seem to be all in order. Depending on your personal preferences some of those might change as you go through the implementation but I don't see anything wrong with it in general.

     

    Regarding the switch I have successfully used Cisco SG200-8 and Netgear GS108T 8-port switches.

     

    The question is do you really need it? While link aggregation allows you to bond the two LAN ports on your DS1812+ giving you a theoretical 2Gbit link you need to understand how this works.

     

    The 2Gbit is the maximum throughput but any one data stream still needs to go through one LAN port. So the maximum for 1 connection is still 1Gbig. Only if you have more devices is the additional bandwidth useful.

     

    To give you an idea on my current switch in link aggregation I can see that 170 million packets have passed through LAN port 1 and only 609 thousand packets through LAN port 2. So that's less than 1% of the time where the single LAN port 1Gbit link wasn't enough.

  • 24. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    Forcefour Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    iPerfection & aschmid - thank you both.  This thread has been a good one, as has another similar one on MacRumors.  I think I'm ready to go.

     

    iPerfection - as for step 4, I was referencing the new iMacs that are supposed to be coming out this month (21.5") and next (27.5").  So far - only the 'Coming Soon' banner is available on the Apple Store.  I am awaiting this availability in order to move the house fully to a Mac environment.  For now - I am running iTunes on a PC that is running out of space, hence my need to move the medial library to something else ... pretty much now.

    I have some nice, rather inexpensive D-Link 8-port switches in play now.  The've been great but will not be able to take advantage of the linka aggregation. 

     

    aschmid - I do have other devices connected so my switches, some that move quite a bit of information but not necessarily to the Synology.  I have four DirecTV DVRS with 1-2TB external hard drives connected to each with plenty of recorded HD.  As they are all connected together via the DirecTV whole house setup I am moving HD around the house.  Guessing that because they would not be moving anything to or from the Synology the linka aggregation woudl not come into play but I was thinking that the link aggregation might make things easier for the devices that do utilize it in light of the other data moving around.  May not be the case - I may just like the idea of being able to move that around if needed.  What is the kind of thing that would take advantage of link aggregation? 

  • 25. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    ataylor2012 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I love this thread. I have been struggling with this for a couple of years now, and I'm fed up with the whole setup. The problem seems to me to be iTunes. iTunes seems to be a common element in each of these posts and I would nominate it as the choke point for a true home-media server setup.

     

    I currently have a massive media collection (2,000+ movies, 10,000+ songs, 10,000+ digital photos) on a Drobo unit attached to an older, headless Mac Mini. The only thing the Mini is used for is serving the 1st-gen AppleTV unit in the media room. We use iTunes Match to access music on-the-go from a handful of iPhones and iPads.

     

    I don't like having to run the Mini 24/7, and I don't like having to run iTunes to access my media. I have tried other media player solutions:

    • Plex and XBMX installed on AppleTV. The interface looks great, but in actual usage, this leaves a lot to be desired. My ATV is on a wired network, so I don't think throughput is my problem. Also, Plex and XBMC seem to crash/freeze up on a regular basis.
    • WDTV unit instead of AppleTV. User interface stinks. Files required to be in a different format than what I currently have (although I think this might've changed since I last tried this option).
    • DunePlayer HD instead of AppleTV. This seemed like a relatively high-end solution to the problem. Getting it to work was a PITA, and in the end it mainly looked like browsing folders against a red-velvet curtain background. Not ideal.

    The holy grail, for me, would be to store my movie, music, and photo collections on an NAS like the Synology, and be able to access them all from any device without running a specific piece of software (I'm looking at you, iTunes). My wife and kids are used to the elegant simplicity of the AppleTV interface, although its reliabity is likely no better than any of the other solutions above (every time the power goes out, either the AppleTV loses track of its iTunes library, or the Mac Mini forgets that it knows the AppleTV trying to gain access to it, and I have to restart everything and re-introduce them all). Having to browse through any kind of folder structure is a deal-breaker. (A file structure is okay, like AppleTV's categories, but I don't ever want to see a folder icon.)

     

    Why can't AppleTV be instructed to simply use a folder of movies? Why is iTunes necessary at all? All it does is muck up the works. But until I can find a decent alternative, I'm stuck using it.

  • 26. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    andrew.in.Boston Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi, I just found this thread.  I've been wrestling with some of the issues raised here.

     

    My specific question:  I have a >1 TB of imaging files that I would like to be network accessible by my MBP.  If price is not an issue, what's faster, a higher end Synology v. a RAID directly attaced to a Mac Mini, running as a server?

  • 27. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    andrew.in.Boston Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    andrew.in.Boston wrote:

     

    Hi, I just found this thread.  I've been wrestling with some of the issues raised here.

     

    My specific question:  I have a >1 TB of imaging files that I would like to be network accessible by my MBP.  If price is not an issue, what's faster, a higher end Synology v. a RAID directly attaced to a Mac Mini, running as a server?

     

    Any thoughts out there?

  • 28. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    peterfrommedford Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Figured I would throw in my two cents. First my setup

     

    • Synology 1511+ fully loaded with 6 3tb drives
    • Headless Mac mini in the equipment rack
    • 3 various Mac laptops in the house
    • ipads, iphones
    • the mini and the NAS are connected to the network via an unmanged switch in the rack

     

    1. A few of you mentioned running iPhoto from your Synology NAS. I would be curious to here how this worked out. I had no luck getting this to work. My understanding is that the iPhoto Library file needs to be on an Apple formatted drive.

     

    2. I use the Mac mini as a very expensive media server. I had an old imac but the drive implouded, and I needed a fix. I figured having the mini hardwired to the network (as is the ATV) would give me much better performance - it did.

     

    3. For managing the mini i tried various ways of remoting in, and found the best solution for me was an app call iTeleport available from the App Store (there are iOS versions available as well).

     

    4. I used to keep the itunes library on the NAS. This is a disaster and I would strongly recommend against this. If the NAS goes to sleep - your mac loses its connection, and then you have to deal with various "itunes library cannot be found" messages. Imagine having to constantly remote into the mac and reconnencting to the NAS, and then repointing the itunes library to its location on the NAS. Not fun

     

    5. ataylor2012 hit the nail on the head when he talked about iTunes being the choke point. I have a very large media library - 40,000+ songs, hundreds of movies and TV shows. Much of the video was purchased from Apple - so I am stuck with iTunes. I recently needed to add a 6th and final drive to my NAS. Since it had been a while since I added a drive, i couldn't remember how to remove the plate that acts as a place holded. Not thinking I accidently ejected one of the disks. This is when all my troubles began. At first I wasn't to concerned. I am a software guy, and I have seen plenty of demos where a live drive is pulled out of a NAS and put right back in. I put the drive back in, and the Sysnology didn't know what to do. 24 hours later, the Synology finally had the recognized the old drive, and properly formatted and configured the system for the new drive. I immediately noticed that my iTunes library was corrupt, and that songs and videos where missing. It took me several days of mucking around to finally get things rebuilt. Unfortuantely, I have definitely lost some music. Luckily I was able to redownload all the video i lost from the Apple Store Cloud. But...you knew there would be a but...I lost all my playcounts, I lost all of my history, and my idevices all had to be rebuilt since the itunes library was destroyed, and the devices where all "connected to a diffferent" itunes library.

     

    Overall, I am generally not satisfied with the NAS. It seems to me that Apple products really work the best when they are working and communicating with other Apple products (or similiarly formatted devices). I aam looking pretty hard at the "Promise Pegasus" solutions on the Apple Store. My Mini has a thunderbolt port, and so I have to believe that will work better. Right now, with a recent upgrade to itunes, my mini is back to saving new videos on its local hard drive, and I am too (lazy nervous scared) to muck around with it to get those files on to the NAS. Like I said earlier I am a software guy not a hardware guy, but it just shouldn't be this complicated. It is 100% entirely possible that i simply misconfigured or am misusing the NAS somehow, but for me it all boils down to

    • pulling the drive was a bone head move by me, but that was ground zero for all my problems
    • not getting iPhoto to run on the NAS was a let down - but as it turns out only 1 computer at a time can connect to the iPhoto library anyway, so in the long run it wouldn't have mattered - why oh why Apple do I have to use your proprietary file format for managing my photos?!?!?!?
    • never never never store the itunes library on the NAS
    • I feel that Apple likes to talk Apple, and adding a new format into the mix complicates life
  • 29. Re: Mac Mini, Synology, Apple TV, iTunes - where to start
    peterfrommedford Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I would go thunderbolt connected to mini - see my rant on this thread

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