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  • 150. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    MlchaelLAX wrote:

     

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    Before I hear any more condemnations of Apple for abandoning Appleworks, I want to call their attention to MS Works - a one-time direct competitor to AppleWorks.  Microsoft dropped their support of MS Works long before Apple quit on AppleWorks.

    My recollection is that Microsoft Works NEVER had a "draw" module and most of the frustration of AppleWorks users comes from their archives of data files from the draw module, since it seems to be the one mostly ignored by Apple and 3rd party software conversion's inputs (other than Roger's noted alternatives, I guess, since I never used AW for drawing).

     

    His frustration is well founded; his approach to asking for help among the user base is not!

    I was more referring to the threats to jump ship to PC and Windows.  You are right that MS Works had no draw but I think he would be even more frustrated if he were also dealing with the loss of word processing and spreadsheets also and he would have been several years earlier!

    But much less frustration, as sources, such as Roger's, have shown the way to use AW word processing and spreadsheet files in other software.

     

    Draw - not so much!

  • 151. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    DJTEMPO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    MS Works is not a valid point here.  It's moot, in that... we're all on Macs and talking about AppleWorks.  I could say something like "it bothers me that I'm not able to write with a typewriter anymore since Brother stopped making the ribbons for my elecric".  MS Works is not at issue in this discussion.

     

    Further point, there are MANY other options to MS Works, particularly that you COULD upgrade to Office.  For Macs, Appleworks was the end all, be all.  No other options were ever offered by Apple, up until Pages and the existing, albeit lame, apps they're trying to push on us now.

  • 152. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    veropcnet Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Everyone should just get over it and a get a life. Get outside and do something and get off your computers. Seriously, you must have something better to do then to bicker on an Apple forum for 3 days. Move on. Appleworks is dead. If you want it to work so bad on 10.7 and 10.8 run it in a VM. It takes 30 min to set up. If you want the Windows version I have 10 copies gathering dust in my garage. I'll send you one if you let this thread die like it should have 3 days ago.

  • 153. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    GeneMike Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I admit to being part of the useless discussion for the past few days but, the thread has great value to those (like me) struggling to migrate to a new OS with hundreds of AppleWorks files.  It was here that I found most of my solutions.

  • 154. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Phil Femano Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    veropcnet:

     

    I respectfully and strongly disagree. This is exactly when we SHOULD hammer on a problem topic like this. Apple and its loyal users need to realize that when a company is so intimately depended upon to supply us with critical tools, users actually place a seriously high regard in such trust and expect that trust to not be so easily betrayed, especially since Apple had promoted Appleworks as a preferred alternative to MS Office, Pagemaker (at the time) and other similar apps. I also blame the Apple-owned FileMaker, Inc., formerly Claris, which had the responsibility for Works for several years. Filemaker's database drawing feature could have just as well allowed importing of Appleworks drawing format but both Apple and Clair/Filemaker deliberately abandoned support for that.

     

    What you are suggesting is that we simply become complacent lemmings and allow any corporation to do whatever they want so that they can turn a quarterly profit for their shareholders and simply accept the fact that we ran out of luck. Your solution is that we spend upwards around $500 more and buy WINDOWS!!! and Parallels and go thorugh that hole pain. That's certainly Apple's privilege to require us to do that in this free enterprise system, but it also happens to not be the way to handle customer service if you expect a modicum of loyalty from APPLE customers. Does Apple not have any concern about its own loyal customers instructing current Windows users about the risk of converting to Apple?! Of course, it's reasonable to assume that Apple's research indicated that the outcry for abandoning Appleworks would not be significant enough to affect share price. Perhaps a customer culture of animosity is exactly what is required to invoke a bit more concern within the confines of Apple's citidel. The fact that we're hearing such an outcy at this late date is clearly an indication of a much larger frustration building up in Apple's loyal base in response to Apple's more off-target product decisions in recent years.

     

    Fairweather friends -- personal and corporate -- are a dime a dozen. It's when your friends express dire need that the heroes stand out from the exploiters. Right now, Apple is exploiting, not heroic (one reason many characterize the company as becoming more Microsoft-like). We should continue to rag about this issue for as long as it takes us to arrive at a solution, if any. Users care more about using computers to improve their productivity. They do not care to spend time working around problems of the very technology they were lured into trusting only to have the rug pulled out from under them.

     

    There is no reasonable basis for decreeing that we simply should cowar into the cracks like a bunch of cockaroaches scrambling after the light has been turned on.

  • 155. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Stephen Bunker Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)

    "Where's my cheese?" For those of you have read Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson you will know exactly what I mean. For those of you who haven't, check out the link for a quick synopsis.

     

    Instead of  bemoaning the fact that AppleWorks is gone, let's look for its replacement(s). I must compliment Rober Wilmut for his thorough work at http://www.wilmut.webspace.virginmedia.com/notes/aw/page1.html. His time an effort has been very valuable.

     

    By all means, let's continue sharing with one another how we are finding different solutions to this problem.

     

    Since the factory no longer makes my favorite type of cheese, I've done a little searching and have found these options. I know they aren't perfect and require some invested learning. Never the less they will get me by:

    1. Word processing - Apple's Pages
    2. Spread Sheet - Apple's Sheets
    3. Paint - Gimp
    4. Draw - Inkscape
    5. DataBase - Filemaker

     

    Numbers 3 & 4 are open source and and the last has a hefty price. Until I can save up for Filemaker, I'll be opening my databases on an older Mac via filesharing.

     

    Cheers

  • 156. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Roger Wilmut1 Level 9 Level 9 (65,525 points)

    It's difficult to remember after all this time, but I'm pretty sure that macros and Publish & Subscribe disappeared with the move to Intel and we were told that it was because facilities in the System which had been relied on to provide these were not included in Intel Macs. The rest of AppleWorks continued to work, and still does perfectly well on Snow Leopard (in Rosetta): it was just these two particular facilities which ceased to work. And Appleworks itself is very old - I was using I think version 2 of it in 1993.

  • 157. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    Phil:

     

    What a well reasoned response to the discontinuation of AppleWorks; ONLY FIVE YEARS TOO LATE:

     

    http://www.macworld.co.uk/macsoftware/news/?RSS&NewsID=18827

     

    Feel free to link us to your earlier and more timely protestations...

     

    Hey, I hear that Dylan went electric!  I'm burning my copy of "The Times They Are a Changin'" in protest...

  • 158. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    christopher rigby1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,080 points)

    Roger Wilmut1 wrote:

     

    It's difficult to remember after all this time, but I'm pretty sure that macros and Publish & Subscribe disappeared with the move to Intel and we were told that it was because facilities in the System which had been relied on to provide these were not included in Intel Macs.

    No, those features were in ClarisWorks 5, but not in AW6 as I remember. CW5 ran in Classic only I think? Therefore no later than Tiger IIRC. Probably more to do with the difference between Carbon and Cocoa. But I'm weaning myself off AW (the only thing I use it for now is drawing - though AW runs quite happily on my G4, I'd rather future-proof myself as far as possible; so, WP in Word or TextEdit, SS in Excel, all graphics in Photoshop (years ago!), databases in FileMaker (since 1994!!).

  • 159. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    christopher rigby1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,080 points)

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    In my family office, I am finally moving out four Macs (2 desktops and 2 laptops) all running OS 10.4.11.  I just purchased two new Mac Book Pros with Mountain Lion and am planning the migration.  I literally have over 1,000 files that started out in some version of MS Works, Claris Works, or AppleWorks.  Over the past two days, I have been using the old standby, MacLinkPlus v.16 (the last) to get everything in either .rtf or AW6.  However, I am now worried that some future version of Pages or Numbers may not open AW6 and MacLinkPlus would have been left behind.

     

    So, maybe while MacLinkPlus is still available to make macro conversions, I should just convert all of them into .rtf ???

     

     

    If you are still able to run AW6, don't convert to RTF - I've found its implementation of it, like MS products, is not fully compliant with the open standard that it was intended to be (and may give you problems when you try to open them in certain other software). So...

     

    Take your AW WP documents into AW6 and Save As.. Word documents (file format: Word Mac 98, 2001) - they will open in TextEdit (and Pages?) as well as all versions of Word.

    Take your AW SS documents into AW6 and Save As.. Excel documents (file format: Excel Mac 98, 2001) - they will open in Numbers as well as all versions of Excel.

     

    It's ironic when your best chance to future-proof yourself means having to save in Microsoft formats, but there you are.

  • 160. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Roger Wilmut1 Level 9 Level 9 (65,525 points)

    You don't need to save as MS formats. Pages will directly open AW6 word processing documents, and Numbers will directly open AW6 spreadsheets.

  • 161. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    christopher rigby1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,080 points)

    Cool - so all the talk about Apple "abandoning" its users is a bit premature. After all, Apple didn't have to make Pages and Numbers AW-compliant. They probably coded it in right from the start, a few years ago.

  • 162. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Peggy Level 8 Level 8 (38,230 points)

    Yes, Pages has been able to open AppleWorks 6 word processing documents since iWork '05. Numbers has been able to open AppleWorks 6 spreadsheets since version 1 in iWork '08.

     

    Peggy_sig.png

  • 163. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Jeff Shenk Level 4 Level 4 (2,115 points)

    I think Publish & Subscribe was dropped when AppleWorks 6 came out, but macros were available in AppleWorks 6, until you booted to OS X. And I'm pretty sure there was nothing Cocoa about AppleWorks; up until a few years ago even the Finder was still Carbon.

  • 164. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Phil Femano Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    "Phil:

    What a well reasoned response to the discontinuation of AppleWorks; ONLY FIVE YEARS TOO LATE:


    http://www.macworld.co.uk/macsoftware/news/?RSS&NewsID=18827


    Feel free to link us to your earlier and more timely protestations..."

     

    I'm not sure what your point is here. If you are saying there is only a small window within which we are allowed to voice our objection about a company's (obscurely published) decision to abandon customer support on an important productvitiy tool, I respectfully disagree. The point isn't WHEN the product was abandoned. The point is the product was abandoned without leaving the customers any alternative to preserve their data moving forward. This sends a wave of distrust about Apple's strategy toward OTHER key producitivity products in the future.

     

    What would users of FileMaker (owned by Apple) do if  Apple announced was dissolving the database without offering any route to preserve all the data, reports, and scripting logic for companies that depend on that database platform for its  survival?

     

    In any case, because of my company's dependence on FileMaker, it was not possible for us to upgrade to Lion until a few weeks ago which is when we first became aware of the lack of support for AppleWorks on that platform. If we didn't find AW on a given OS level, we assumed it was no longer included but rather was then for sale separately, and so we simply copied AW6 to the next level -- since the feature set for that version was perfectly suitable for our purposes; we never had the need to seek a higher version and so we never learned later versions were non-existent, as was support for anyu file conversion. I now two iMacs on my desk, one running Lion (the lowest OS level that supports our current version of FileMaker) and one running Snow Leopard so we can still run AW6. It's a ridiculously absurd situation to thrust your customers into.

     

    Meanwhile, I invite you to please link us to any earlier notificatyion that Apple sent to its registered users announcing that it was taking such actions to cut off further support, regardless of when Apple "announced" its decision to do so. I never received any such notification from Apple.

     

    Assuming there was no such notification, what difference would it have made if there was? All that means is that we would be lamenting about this a few years earlier. It's not like there would have been any  tools back then to handle the Drawing format of AW back then than there is right now. We'd be in the same boat as we are now.

     

    The argument that states "But if we complained earlier, Apple might have reversed its decision and kept up its support, but complaining about now is simply too late" is totally bogus. First, we have no reason to believe Apple would have taken such an about-face stance. Second, it remains incumbant on the company to do its research and make a responsible proactive decision before taking such steps to sever support of a critical productivity tool. Apple simply took a gamble and lost (in the opinion of many of us here).

     

    There is no statue of limitations for pointing out flaws in a company's decision about product support, especially when the company did not due its diligence to properly and systematically inform its registered users of the impending product decision before it happend in order to allows its users to offer feedback.

     

    We praise fireman to put out other people's fire, we do not praise firemen who put out fires that they started themselves.