1 10 11 12 13 14 Previous Next 209 Replies Latest reply: Nov 13, 2013 10:35 AM by MlchaelLAX Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • 165. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    Phil Femano wrote:

     

    I'm not sure what your point is here.

    My point is that five years ago there was a large database of users that has now largely dispursed itself to meet the needs of the post-Appleworks era.  Your attempts to herd them back together now, will leave you with a few "cult" users of these products, that will hardly have any economic bearing on Apple decisions in 2013.  You can do it, just don't expect any miracles; even if one was possible five years ago...

     

    Phil Femano wrote:

     

    In any case, because of my company's dependence on FileMaker...

    Your usage is for a business?  I recommend you fire your Head of IT!

     

    You seem to think that my post is criticising your right to criticise Apple's practices. Criticise all you want, especially if it makes you feel better. 

     

    I often repeat this post of the available "workarounds" for those who are seeking solutions, not psychotherapy:

     

    Unfortunately you got caught up in the minor miracle of Rosetta.  Originally licensed by Apple when it migrated from the PowerPC CPU platform that it had used from the mid-1990's until the Intel CPU platform in 2006, Rosetta allowed Mac users to continue to use their library of PPC software transparently in emulation.

     

    However, Apple's license to continue to use this technology expired with new releases of OS X commencing with Lion (and now Mountain Lion).  While educational efforts have been made over the last 6 years, the fact is that Rosetta was SO successful that many users were caught unaware UNTIL they upgraded to Lion or Mountain Lion.

     

    Workarounds:

     

    1. If your Mac will support it, restore OS X Snow Leopard;

     

    2.  If your Mac will support it, partition your hard drive or add an external hard drive and install Snow Leopard into it and use the "dual-boot" method to choose between your PowerPC software or Lion/Mt. Lion;

     

    3.  Upgrade your software to Intel compatible versions, or find alternative software that will open your data files;

     

    3.  Install Snow Leopard (with Rosetta) into Parallels:

     

    Appleworks.jpg

                                  [click on image to enlarge]

     

    Full Snow Leopard installation instructions here:

     

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1365439

     

    NOTE: STEP ONE of the instructions must currently be completed on a Snow Leopard or Lion Mac and the resulting modified Snow Leopard.cdr install file can then be moved over to your Mountain Lion Mac for completion of the remaining steps.

     

    NOTE 2:  Computer games with complex, 3D or fast motion graphics make not work well or at all in virtualization.

  • 166. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    DJTEMPO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I still think Phil hit the nail on the head.  Michael is just trying to impose his complacency on everyone else.

  • 167. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    DJTEMPO wrote:

     

    I still think Phil hit the nail on the head.  Michael is just trying to impose his complacency on everyone else.

    If by "complacency" you mean: "a willingness to accept today's factual situation and offer help to others based on those facts"  I AGREE 100%!

     

    FWIW: I also maintain a functioning Apple //c so that I can continue to access my Home Accountant and Time is Money financial files from the 80's and 90's.  Nevertheless, I have also "moved" all of my floppy disk data files over to Mac file images, so I can access them with the Virtual ][ emulator, so that I can continue into the future when the hardware fails...

     

    I could just whine about Apple's failure to maintain their promised: "Apple // Forever" campaign of 1984!

    Screen Shot 2012-11-16 at 10.21.20 AM.png

  • 168. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    GeneMike Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I spent most of yesterday afternoon making Excel files of 18 years of Andrew Tobias' Managing Your Money!  The Classic of 10.4.11 was the last thing it would run on.  However, I migrated to Quicken for Mac 2007 in that year.  Now, they sold me a Quicken for Mac 2007 for Lion for $14.95.

     

    The open question for me is "What does all this new technology do for me?"  The only answer for me is that I can now prepare my taxes for 2012 on TurboTax which will not run on 10.4.

  • 169. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Phil Femano Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    "What does all this new technology do for me?"

     

     

    Frankly, in my observation, what stands out the most from a pragmatic perspective is that the new OS technology simply gives software developers the opportunity to narrow the range of OS levels their applications will work on, thereby forcing you to buy an update to their application each time you update the OS which, in turn, allows the newer applicaiton updates to narrow it's "compatibility" even further.

     

    This also has been happening to FileMaker (which is owned by Apple). Newer versions of FMP only run on a narrow range of OS levels. For example, I can't run FMP 8 (2006) on any Mac OS after 10.5. Meanwhile, FMP 6 (from 2002!) still runs perfectly on 10.6!

     

    Go figure.

  • 170. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    The open question for me is "What does all this new technology do for me?" 

    I would like to address your question, but first please put it in the context of your situation.

     

    Are you just asking why upgrade after Snow Leopard 10.6?

  • 171. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    Phil Femano wrote:

     

     

    This also has been happening to FileMaker (which is owned by Apple). Newer versions of FMP only run on a narrow range of OS levels. For example, I can't run FMP 8 (2006) on any Mac OS after 10.5. Meanwhile, FMP 6 (from 2002!) still runs perfectly on 10.6!

     

    Go figure.

    I do not understand your claim that Filemaker 8 will not run in Snow Leopard.  I do not have it in my library, but I will do some more research, as that makes no sense at all!

     

    Here is Filemaker 7 running in Snow Leopard (while co-existing with Lion):

     

    FileMaker Pro in vSL.png

  • 172. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    Phil Femano Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I do not understand your claim that Filemaker 8 will not run in Snow Leopard.  I do not have it in my library, but I will do some more research, as that makes no sense at all!

     

    Michael, I'm not request you to research anything about FileMaker. I know all about that issue. The point is that FileMaker has not certified FMP 8/8.5 for OS 10.6, it does not print/preview to a pdf using the standard print dialog on OS 10.6, and FileMaker programmers have personally confirmed to me that they do not guarantee its stability and functionality on OS 10.6.

     

    Meanwhile, FMP 6 purrs along with all features working perfectly on 10.6. Sadly, it's only PowerPC coded and will not run on 10.7.

     

    Obsolescence by design, and the lifespan is getting shorter with each new level of OS.

  • 173. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    DJTEMPO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Here... try this...

     

    https://www.eazydraw.com/index.htm

     

    I'm running the demo version right now, and am pretty much liking it...

  • 174. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    GeneMike Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    MlchaelLAX wrote:

     

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    The open question for me is "What does all this new technology do for me?" 

    I would like to address your question, but first please put it in the context of your situation.

     

    Are you just asking why upgrade after Snow Leopard 10.6?

    No, I am leapfrogging from Tiger 10.4.11 to Mountain Lion 10.8.2.  I have never seen Leopard, Snow Leopard, nor Lion.  And, I went from OS9 directly to OSX 10.4, never seeing 10.1,2, or 3.  I have always done that - hanging on to a satisfactory OS until some application forces me to upgrade.

     

    And, what I am saying is that nothing in these systems have provided me with an appreciable gain in doing my tasks.  OS9 and the machines of that era did all I want done.

  • 175. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    No, I am leapfrogging from Tiger 10.4.11 to Mountain Lion 10.8.2.  I have never seen Leopard, Snow Leopard, nor Lion.  And, I went from OS9 directly to OSX 10.4, never seeing 10.1,2, or 3.  I have always done that - hanging on to a satisfactory OS until some application forces me to upgrade.

     

    And, what I am saying is that nothing in these systems have provided me with an appreciable gain in doing my tasks.  OS9 and the machines of that era did all I want done.

    Got it!  Then you should stay with Snow Leopard until your hardware dies and or some feature is released that you must have that requires Lion or Mt. Lion. 

     

    Personally I am still with Lion and have not upgraded to Mt. Lion.  I only went to Lion when my G5 died and I did not want to again put any more money into it.  I thought at the time I would put my money into a new (2011) Mac Mini and get more RAM, more HD, faster CPU and Lion to boot!  I did not do the proper due diligence and discovered to my horror that Lion no longer supported Rosetta.

     

    Hence, my Quicken 2007 (at that time, Fall, 2011) and Office 2004 would not longer work.  Necessity being the Mother of Invention, I developed my Snow Leopard (with Rosetta) into Parallels solution.  The purpose was to "buy more time" until I could determine what the future offered for me.

     

    I discovered that it offered a Lion version of Quicken and Office 2011.  However, there were times that I wanted to run some legacy PowerPC software and especially needed to access Excel 2004 for a spreadsheet/chart that I modfiy weekly that gets trashed in the conversion by Excel 2011.  So I still have that capability.

     

    I would have considered using one of my older Mac Mini's to continue to run Snow Leopard, except I wanted to make the transition to iCloud, which requires Lion and did not want to use any of the wonderful workarounds that have been suggested.

  • 176. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    Phil Femano wrote:

     

    Meanwhile, FMP 6 purrs along with all features working perfectly on 10.6. Sadly, it's only PowerPC coded and will not run on 10.7.

    What don't you like about this picture (FMP 7, or 6 if you wanted, purring along with all the features working perfectly on 10.6; whiile 10.7 runs concurrently)?

     

    FileMaker Pro in vSL.png

                                  [click on image to enlarge]

  • 177. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    GeneMike Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    MlchaelLAX wrote:

     

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    No, I am leapfrogging from Tiger 10.4.11 to Mountain Lion 10.8.2.  I have never seen Leopard, Snow Leopard, nor Lion.  And, I went from OS9 directly to OSX 10.4, never seeing 10.1,2, or 3.  I have always done that - hanging on to a satisfactory OS until some application forces me to upgrade.

     

    And, what I am saying is that nothing in these systems have provided me with an appreciable gain in doing my tasks.  OS9 and the machines of that era did all I want done.

    Got it!  Then you should stay with Snow Leopard until your hardware dies and or some feature is released that you must have that requires Lion or Mt. Lion. 

     

    Personally I am still with Lion and have not upgraded to Mt. Lion.  I only went to Lion when my G5 died and I did not want to again put any more money into it.  I thought at the time I would put my money into a new (2011) Mac Mini and get more RAM, more HD, faster CPU and Lion to boot!  I did not do the proper due diligence and discovered to my horror that Lion no longer supported Rosetta.

     

    Hence, my Quicken 2007 (at that time, Fall, 2011) and Office 2004 would not longer work.  Necessity being the Mother of Invention, I developed my Snow Leopard (with Rosetta) into Parallels solution.  The purpose was to "buy more time" until I could determine what the future offered for me.

     

    I discovered that it offered a Lion version of Quicken and Office 2011.  However, there were times that I wanted to run some legacy PowerPC software and especially needed to access Excel 2004 for a spreadsheet/chart that I modfiy weekly that gets trashed in the conversion by Excel 2011.  So I still have that capability.

     

    I would have considered using one of my older Mac Mini's to continue to run Snow Leopard, except I wanted to make the transition to iCloud, which requires Lion and did not want to use any of the wonderful workarounds that have been suggested.

    I can't "stay with Snow Leopard" because, as I said, I never had Leopard, Snow Leopard, nor Lion.

     

    Are you saying that Office 2011 does not open Office 2004 files correctly?

     

    I am uncomfortable continuing to steal this thread which provided valuable information concerning Appleworks and Lion.  Later today, I will start a new discussion somewhere about migrating from old systems.

  • 178. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,745 points)

    I have forgotten your hardware: but if you can upgrade to Snow Leopard, IMHO Snow Leopard improves upon Leopard with no negative aspects, other then the $19 cost of purchasing it from Apple.  Be sure to install Rosetta which is optional in SL (and IMHO the optional install of QuickTime 7).

     

    I am saying that I have one Excel file that Excel 2011 does not translate correctly.  I created this file in 1993, and have brought it forward all these years, so that is probably the source of the anomoly.

  • 179. Re: AppleWorks and Lion
    christopher rigby1 Level 4 Level 4 (2,080 points)

    GeneMike wrote:

     

    No, I am leapfrogging from Tiger 10.4.11 to Mountain Lion 10.8.2.  I have never seen Leopard, Snow Leopard, nor Lion.  And, I went from OS9 directly to OSX 10.4, never seeing 10.1,2, or 3.  I have always done that - hanging on to a satisfactory OS until some application forces me to upgrade.

     

    And, what I am saying is that nothing in these systems have provided me with an appreciable gain in doing my tasks.  OS9 and the machines of that era did all I want done.

     

    To go to OSX direct from OS9, it didn't really matter whether you went straight to Panther, Tiger, Leopard etc - just jumping into OSX was a big culture change, and nothing in OSX's releases involved such a huge cultural shift. As it happens, Tiger was arguably the first OSX release that came near to replicating all the functions of OS9, but with the extra sophistication that OSX brought with it. (Remember when OS9 would 'freeze' or crash?).

     

    (For what it's worth - Leopard was a feature-rich update to Tiger, with Time Machine backups, Quicklook, and a better Mail app. (Spaces I don't use or need). Snow Leopard had hardly any new features over Leopard, but was streamlined for Intel Macs and future graphics card OpenCL technology. Lion brought OSX and iOS more in line with each other, and Mountain Lion takes that vision further.)

     

    But, to go straight from Tiger to Mountain Lion is a heap of hurt if you have older software. In one fell swoop, you lose Classic with its ability to run pre-PPC software; you lose Rosetta with its ability to run PPC-only software; you skip two versions of Apple Mail (is that even possible?); and you lose any kind of Apple Support - I am running Leopard on a G4 PB but Apple lets me run iTunes 10 and Safari 5, even if not the very latest versions. That's not bad for a 6-year-old OS running on a platform that was superseded also 6 years ago.