Currently Being ModeratedNov 21, 2012 3:46 PM (in response to dj_rag)
Thanks for the response - just to be clear, both are LED backlit LCD screens so they are the same technology, and fit into the same chassis as far as I am aware. It would be crazy if the logic board didn't accept another screen based purely on its supported resolution but coming from being a PC geek I am not sure what happens with Macs in this situation. All input is greatly appreciated! Also, would replacing the screen invalidate my Applecare warranty? I think I know the answer to that one... ;]
Currently Being ModeratedNov 21, 2012 3:56 PM (in response to SimonStokes)
ok I found their emails, but they put 3 websites in their signature so i'm not sure which was the original site I contacted them through unfortunately...
try the following -
these all look like UK sites but I'm guessing you're in the UK. If not they'll certainly be good for expert advice if nothing else...No idea if it's an easy or difficult job though, dont imagine its very simple...
Best of luck, let us know how you get on with the new screen...If i could give any advice, it would be to give a good few hours try on a new screen before making the change (ie borrow someone's etc). I say this as I tried the matte MBP in the store for half an hour and thought it was fine, however after buying found my symptoms really hit me after an hour. Watching videos was fine, but reading text really brought on the motion sickness and head pain.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 21, 2012 3:58 PM (in response to SimonStokes)
ah ok, didnt see this reply - looks like you know what you're talking about! im 99% sure it will void the Applecare, I understood changing the memory was about the only thing you could do which didnt void warranty etc, but that might have changed now. Theyll certainly confirm for you if you can get to a store or call the helplines.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 3:48 AM (in response to RMartin111)
Sorry this isn't directly Apple-related but I'm very curious to know whether you guys who are sensitive to this problem have also been affected by LED TVs?
I have now had to return 2 LED TVs due to the symptoms of dizziness / eyestrain, which has never been a problem with the old-style LCDs.
Thanks for your input, I feel like I'm going crazy here!
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 5:12 AM (in response to dan98)
I have had the same experience with an LED tv. However I have also had to return recently a plasma and a basic LCD ccfl TV.
It according to the store was down to the software that drives new TVs. I tend to agree with her analysis.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 5:30 AM (in response to stanillee)
The newer TV's use all kinds of bizarre motion effects to achieve 120hz, 240hz, and beyond. TV and video sources only broadcast at 30fps (or less) so anything beyond that is interpolated (made up by software) and frankly looks STRANGE to some people. I would imagine it can cause motion sickness in the susceptible, or headaches.
This is a different (albeit related) problem from the primary issue at work here. We (people sensitive to Mac screens) seem to fall into several categories:
1. Folks who can't deal with LED light. This isn't all of us. I, for example, can be fine with one Macbook from a batch but NOT fine with another from the SAME batch. Both use LED, both have identical part numbers on the screen.
2. Folks who can't deal with PWM. Again, this isn't everyone. I am ok with SOME implementations of PWM. The Lenovo I'm typing this on right now has PWM and yet I can use it for hours on end with no discomfort.
3. Folks who can't deal with Apple's rendering. There is a not-insignificant subset of the population who just don't like the "trail off into nothingness" fonts that Apple prefers. Especially when those fonts are placed next to razor-sharp lines. It makes the eye work very hard for some people.
4. ??? Some mysterious other problem that is only exhibited by newer Apple displays. is it a focus problem? A subpixel rendering problem? A pixel shifting problem? We just don't know. That's what we've been trying to figure out in this thread.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 5:49 AM (in response to RMartin111)
Thankyou for summarising the state of play.
One of my problematic LED TV sets was very basic - 50Hz (UK) with no additional motion processing .
I know about the interpolation you mention - indeed one of my LCD TVs has it (200Hz), it doesn't bother me, even though it looks rather weird.
It is interesting (and frustrating) to read that things vary, even on the same model.
Bringing it back to computer screens, actually I too use a Lenovo LED laptop without too much of a problem, albeit nowhere near as comfortably as an LCD.
And yet a Macbook Pro LED, or an Acer Aspire LED gives me big problems immediately.
BTW, apologies if I'm in the wrong place. So far, I have not seen any other reasonable debates surrounding the issue.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 6:20 AM (in response to Eric Leung1)
I will share two interesting fragments of text that I found on the internet. This could be the mysterious issue we are trying to solve. I ask that those with problematic devices try the instruction on how to observe the snowing and write if they can see anything. Here are the quotes:
"... if you look closely at any mid tone area on the screen (an area that is not totally white or totally black, and this will move around the screen depending upon the scene) you will notice a snow effect, which on average makes a perfect picture, but the picture itself is really in fact a subtly modulated "snow storm" where the "snow" always takes upon itself the color of whatever the image is supposed to be in that spot. Gray areas are by far the best place to look for this. "
"How to observe the screen -
The effect is not obvious. You have to get tricky to see it. So go beneath the TV, up very close to it, at an angle where the picture does not show right. You have to be able to see the sub tones only. And THEN you will see the snow. Computers will do the color shift as well. Take your (LCD) computer screen, for practice before trying it on a big clumsy LCD television, and tilt the screen back until you see a shift in the way the colors are displayed. Many of you have already noticed this. It is at that angle you have to look at the TV, from below and not the side. This will not work on a plasma TV. But on an LCD tv, you will see what I am talking about. Windows 7 will also create and modulate a similar "snow" on computer screens, even in a still picture or desktop image. This is something new, I have always had the latest and greatest computers, and this weird effect only showed up with Windows 7. It is creepy."
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 6:43 AM (in response to dan98)
I've written before on this thread asking for any experiences of laptops significantly easier on the eyes.
Dan98 you mention the Lenovo. Could you tell me which model you use.
Also a please to all else out there for any current laptops that are ok on the eyes. My lack of laptop access (my current Dell 5yrs old) is on its last legs.
Any suggestions would very gratefully recieved!!
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 9:17 AM (in response to stanillee)
Sadly even the Lenovos aren't that great any more. The one I am using is an 18-month old x220. The newer t420 and t430 and x230 have painful screens albeit not quite as painful as the MacBook.
Even the x220 seems to have changed halfway through its run... A newer one with nicer chip was hurtful to me.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 10:00 AM (in response to RMartin111)
I have the same problem
have been running now for a year to the eyedoctor and hospital for it
spent tons on 3 different type of glasses and problem did not get solved
Now it is confirmed that the problem is not my eyes but the macbook
apple changed the mainboard couple of months ago but that did not solve the problem
so have no other choice then to sell my macbook and buy something else
the problem came with buying the macbook, but apple says there is nothing wrong with it
these messages prove different
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 10:02 AM (in response to Harleybros)
forgot to mention that when i use the macbook for more then 30 minutes I can no longer drive a car, everything looks blurred
can not keep my eyes open, they sting, and have terrible headach