Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 1:52 PM (in response to BarefootHank)
To those at Apple, especially the Design and Marketing Departments:
Not everyplace in America has a low crime rate like Cupertino, CA. There are many places in America where it seems safe, but thieves are lurking in nice place to leave with a $2,500+ piece laptop to sell on eBay or on the street out of the back of a truck.
If at $3,495 or the fact it is the top of the line MacBook, it should DEFINITELY have a KENSINGTON SECURITY SLOT for a LOCK.
Heck, the 15" MacBook with Retina Display, being around $2,500 doesn't have Kensignton Security Slot for a lock!!
Let's think about this, when the COST goes up, you can be sure the THEFTS will go up at the office or coffee shop just like the iPhone has in public place.
Please put back the Kensington Security Slot in at least the 15" MBP and anything bigger. or maybe a physical locking mechanism that uses one of the free USB ports for some sort of security slot hardware add on.
Apple advertises about security for viruses, but at $2000 or more there is need for physical security from thieves that are in the same room, like offices and coffee shops.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 2:22 PM (in response to BarefootHank)
On a MacBook 19, I would not be for that size, as getting a new carry bag to fit any type of 19" is difficult to find.
I think a full keyboard would be make a 17" MBP more noticeable different when the cover is open.
Now, what would make it more noticeable different from the 15" when the cover is CLOSED and also be USEFUL from both a design and productivity standpoint without being too boastful, awkward, in-your-face too big, or in-your-face too flashy?
Well, then again, I would say, first see what a 17" MBP with a full keyboard looks like when both, OPEN and CLOSED and then go from there before adding anything else.
Maybe, the full keyboard and the 2nd hard drive is all that is needed to get well above the "less than 2% of all laptop sales" mark. And if you have room for useful ports, like 1GB ethernet, great!
2% of ALL LAPTOP SALES versus AFFORDABILITY
Ah, but to get above "the 2% of all laptop sales", I think "initial" affordability is key, and the answer to that would be to me, "upgradeability". That is, being able to add RAM and a 2nd HARD drive at a later date WHEN I CAN AFFORD IT.
Very much like lease payments for a house or car, laptop upgradeabilty spreads out the payments for a full featured laptop that professionals will buy because it is productive and affordable.
One of the big DOWNERS is that computer companies force customers to buy two sticks of RAM of a lesser size and then when more RAM is needed, both memory slots are taken up, hence, they have to buy another set of RAM and discard perfectly good RAM they purchased at an earlier date.
Why not make a deal with 17" customers where the 1st stick of RAM is good enough and a 2nd stick can be purchased later? Right now, the last configuration and sales deals of the 17" MBP can't do much worse than "less than 2% of all laptop sales".
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 3:19 PM (in response to pc2k5)
OK. Now you're being counterproductive.
A. Plenty of cases will fit a 19" machine
B. A full size keyboard will only fit on a 19
C. When someone on YOUR site asks furthers the cause...
You don't shut them down.
Go get some turkey and think about that please
Currently Being ModeratedNov 22, 2012 3:40 PM (in response to BarefootHank)
Compared to 17" laptop bags, 19" bags are difficult to find because there are not to many 19" laptops, PC or Mac, that are available for sale in the first place. If you go on NewEgg.com, you can see that 19" laptops are far and few between.
And yes, they do make 17" laptops with FULL SIZE keyboard. In fact almost all 17" notebooks currently selling include a full key size keyboard, or a keyboard with a numeric keypad. Which is plenty good.
(But if you really need a standard desktop PC sized keyboard, just buy one and connect via USB.)
HOWEVER, considering a 17" MBP is almost the same size as a 15" PC notebook, perhaps a 17.9", or almost 18" MBP would be just enough to "readily see" the difference between a 15" MBP and a 17" MBP (17.9") which all the too big connotations of a 18" or a 19". Or maybe a little taller as opposed to wider?
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 3:46 PM (in response to BarefootHank)
There was a time when "net" books came out and there were quite small, but useful to a certain group. Now, of course, the tablet, e.g. iPad, has taken over that size category.
There was also a time, a few years ago, when the 17" laptop, when if first came out, seemed so oversized. Now, of course, you see lots and lots of 17" laptop mixed in with the iPad at, say the coffee shop, and the 17" doesn't seem so out of place among the 13", 15" and iPads.
ONE on ONE CONVERSATIONS
With the 17" windows laptop, it was noticable at the coffee shop and I, as others, always stopped and looked and asked questions with the owner. With each conversation, I think it made other potential customers of the 17" more confortable with their next purchase to be a 17". In those conversations, I, just like everyone one else, could always reply, "Hmmm, it looks pretty big, but I know you can get a lot of work done on them.". It was also the same with the netbooks as well at the coffeeshop, They were noticably small and I, as well as others, would stop by and ask, "Can you get work done on something that small?"
If the 17" MBP doesn't look any different than the 15" MBP, those "types of netbook or 17" windows laptop conversations" as stated above, just don't happen at the coffee shop or even the Apple Store as you can't tell the difference between the 15" MBP and the 17" MBP. Hence, you can't have a conversation that addresses the significant size factor with an actual user in the real world and puts the potential customer at ease.
I would not be surprised the designers at Apple took the "Hmmm, that's pretty big" laptop factor and tried to minimize that with the 17" MBP so customers wouldn't be surprised at the much larger size. However, when you take that "large size" surprise factor away, the 17" MBP just didn't get noticed on the sales floor or the coffeeshop.
COSTS AFFECTS SALES AT SOME POINT
One can talk all they want about features and VALUE, but if you are trying to sell to the public, only so many people have $3,500 they can spend for a laptop. If the cost of a 17" MBP is so high, you can bet the "less than 2% of all laptop sales" will come back and haunt Apple.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 4:04 PM (in response to mswag)
Apple, please give us a 17 inch macbook pro with retina display. I currently own a 17 inch 2011 early edition. I bought it in the apple store and it was just the basic computer with no upgrades. To tell the truth, it is great ! I installed windows 7 on it and it works fine. Now, I was looking to upgrade to a retina 17 inch with 16 GB RAM so I can play games occasionally without freezing. I know it is a bit wasteful for a 17 inch to play game, but it is definitely necessary to be able to play pc games. I mainly use my mac side to do homework, browse internet, and use the final cut express for video editing. Even though a 15 inch would be satisfying for my needs but it is absolutely amazing with the 17 inch. It is great when other people only have 15 inch and you are the only one with a 17 inch. It is absolutely an awesome feeling.
Now, I understand why apple would stop producing the 17 inch macbook pro, it is all about the consumer demand. The Macbook Airs are rather more popular than the Pros. I do not see the Airs often in the California, but I do see the Airs everywhere in China. When I walk into Starbucks almost everyone is using Air and they are mostly girls. Another important fact I noticed is that the iPhones are very popular in China, almost everybody have one. In Hong Kong, the white iPhones are more expensive than the black ones, almost every girl is all girls are using white iPhones. It is a better way to earn money from the general public who only buy one apple product per year. I (My family) have 4 verizon iphone 4 32 or 64 i forgot, 2 ipad 3 64gb, 1 ipad 4 64gb, 2 iphone 5 one 64 one 32, and 1 macbook pro. Not including the at least 3 ipad 2's 10 iphone 4s's and 5 iphone 5's my dad bought to give to other people. Now going back to the topic, it is understandable that apple would do such thing and take out the Macbook Pro 17 w/ retina display. But also, doing so jeopardize the opportunity for true apple lovers the chance to be able to enjoy the innovative products that apple makes.
Since there is only 2% of sales are the 17 inch I ask apple to put the 17 inch online. That way, apple don’t need to produce the ones for display and saves the space for other popular hardwares in store. ****, you can make it a limited edition and pre-orders only from the apple online store. I really like the way you can customize the computers online with SSD and better RAM. I noticed theres requests above to make a bigger keyboard, but I do not think it is necessary it is super comfortable when typing.
Please, please make a 17 inch, for everybody who are truly apple fans.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 4:38 PM (in response to frankli1997)
The person above gave a great idea. If displaying the 17 inch MBP in stores is not justified at a 2% sales level, sell it online only.
I hope someone at Apple is paying attention to this thread. Clearly there are many loyal Apple customers who still want a 17 inch MBP!
Currently Being ModeratedNov 24, 2012 6:41 PM (in response to NY27)
If Apple keeps the 17" MBP at the same size as well as same specs where it's very hard to distinguish it from the 15" MBP, then I guess online helps with costs. But some will ask for it at the Apple stores and then some customers who have heard about the 17" MBP will think, "This doesn't seem like popular item and it might not be supported that well. I am not sure I want to purchase this as they don't even sell it in the store." Then there are those who would have purchased the 17" MBP because they saw it at the store, and likewise, will not see it anymore to purchase it in the first place.
Hence, the "less than 2% of all laptop sales" can easily become "less than 1% of all sales". Or worse, "less than 0.5% of all laptop sales".
I am starting to think that the reason the 17" MBP can easily be confused with the 15" MBP was because the design intent was to
1. simplify by reducing noticable size to new customers.
2. by reducing the noticable size, customers won't be surprised (or shocked) by the increased size like traditional 17" PC laptops are. Hence they
will be more inclined to buy it. Sort of like the backlash to the large sized SUV's on the highways and parking lots.
However, by reducing the noticable size difference, customers didn't complain about the 17" MBP size being to big. But of course,
no one noticed it was a 17" MBP in the first place. Hence, those 17" MBP user were never asked by potential customers about how
productive it was.
Essentially, a CATCH-22 from a design and sales perspective.
I would say, make it 17.9" and let the USERS do the convincing that the size is worth the extra bulk in the same way the netbook
was too small where basic computer stuff could not get done. Then again, I would say call it the 17.9" MBP - iSUV edition, or something
that conveys productivity. Making it say 17.9", will not make the 15" or the 13" any smaller as there was always a 17" to begin with.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 28, 2012 6:53 AM (in response to mswag)
I really don't know how you would convince them of anything lately. I was SO excited for the possibility of a 17" retina, being that I am a programmer and web/graphic designer - I am always in need of more screen space.
I think they are getting too big to care what you, I, or anyone wants... Just look at the flurry of iPad releases, annoucing a product almost 2 months before you can even order it (iMacs). The prices that they charge for their hardware is rediculous in every case.
I have seen teardowns revealing the cost of an iPad in parts to be just about $100 and the iPhone even less...
I mean whatever, they are going to do what they want, but as they stop caring about the people who got them there (designers, and musicians) and try to become a more commodity product (for spread sheets, and word processing - given I know these are core computer functions) I feel that they are losing their focus and their "magic / innovative / special factor". Especially since Steve Jobs has died. They need a new person to come into the company with "The Fire Inside" not just mope around pushing out products. Not to mention making machines that are "not upgradable" this is a load of garbage. With the economy in the state that it is, the high price of Apple products, and with the worlds resources being depleted - Apple decides it's time to start making "disposable products"?? What kind of mentatily is that...
Having been in the industry for close to 32 years, I am going to say - it really is "Back to the 80's" - - - for Apple. Giants always get slain somewhere along the line - and without Steve Jobs I feel that the heart was torn from this beast, and there is no way to get enough "blood flow" to keep going.
Apple should also keep in mind also that Microsoft doesn't "need Apple" any more, none of their competitors do - there are other OSes out there - Apple falling would not force Microsoft into a monopoly situation - infact I think it would cause such a shake up that something MUCH better might actually be born.
Sorry - and it does suck because I love their OS, and my macbook has been the best computer I have every owned.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 28, 2012 6:58 AM (in response to mmdeveloper)
MMDeveloper stated this:
The prices that they charge for their hardware is rediculous (sic) in every case.
my macbook has been the best computer I have every owned.
One leads to the other.
Apple isn't going to fail anytime soon. And they aren't ignoring their core: the 27-inch iMac is truly a beautiful machine both for graphics artists and programmers (I am the latter).
There are countless legitimate reasons why I want a wider display on my lap. Portability is not my main concern. I use my laptop 95% of the time either on my lap in my living room or at a local restaurant five minutes away.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 28, 2012 6:35 PM (in response to mswag)
please help everyone....... i am in the market for a 17" glossy 2.5ghz quadcore i7 (NEW) please keep your eyes pealed it is for an xmas prezzie also does this listing make any sense???????
Late 2011 17" MBP Quadcore 2.5ghz i7 (Glossy display) specs?
Does this site's specs for this machine make any sense:
What do they mean by:
MacBook Pro 17-inch: 2.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
Processor: 2.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7
Thanks, so ya I am in the market again for a 17" MBP this time a glossy quadcore 2.5ghz i7 for another of my nephews entering university, he wants glossy. So I'm gonna be on this quest for a long time I think.
Let me know if you find a NEW deal on one please?!
Currently Being ModeratedNov 28, 2012 7:18 PM (in response to veepro)
There are some with almost those specs on the Apple refurbished (read: Like new) store:
Apple refurbished come with standard warranty, and are eligible for AppleCare extension to three years.
They are cosmetically perfect, BUT: they come in a plain white box. I know this may be a real deal-breaker if you had your heart set on a box with a picture to impress your friends, but for the money you save, it may be be worth it.Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
Currently Being ModeratedNov 29, 2012 5:15 AM (in response to mswag)
IIRC, it took some time for the previous range of non-unibody MBP to be released in 17 inch, because of technical difficulties building the screen enclosure stiff enouh for the display panel.
I would presume the Apple would be working on a 17inch retina MBP, but that they are having some kind of technical challenges. Maybe yields of retina panels are too low for the large size pixel perfect at present.
Had a play with a 15inch retina MBP at the local Apple Store. Yes you can adjust the display scaling to get more stuff on the screen, but not easy to get as much screen real estate as a 17inch and system settings warns about performance problems. So despite that a 15inch retina display has more pixels than a 17inch non-retina, you still don't get to see as much on the screen.
So it is also feasible that driving as many pixels as needed for 17inch retina is challenging for GPU, power consumption, and battery life.
In the meantime, I'm glad I got my refurb unibody 17inch MBP with matt screen and standard size hard drive which has been swapped to SSD.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 29, 2012 10:21 AM (in response to mswag)
In my opinion, they really blew it by taking the 17 inch away. There are many, many people out there that are over 50 and don't have the eye sight that they did in younger years.
The 17 inch is good at 1900 x 1200 , but the print is getting a bit hard to read. A Retina display would totally rock.
I'd try to be the first in line for a 17 inch with a retina display
APPLE PLEASE KEEP THE 17 INCH LINE GOING.