13 Replies Latest reply: Feb 20, 2013 7:40 PM by MillionManMosh
BrasilWill Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Look, I have seen alot of discussion about subjectivity of heat andhow some people might just be "sensitive." This is what I am concerned about... I just dumped a Alienware M17x R3 for a Macbook Pro 15, RD, w/ NVIDIA GT 650M. The graphics are not as powerful, but it will do since it is MUCH more portable. I kinda like have the Mac OS to play with from time to time.

 

I did this because I trusted the quality of apple and my Alienware "blew up" with multiple hardware failures due to heat... I personally do not care if the fan goes off for 24hrs a day and sounds like a jet engine... what I care is will my computer melt since I am gaming on a Win7/8?

 

Has anyone had their computer CRASH due to the heat? Someone mentioned that the Apple store recomended NOT using cooling pads... Why not?!

 

I have 1 month to return this thing and if this will crash like my Dell with I amnot ready to wate another 3k on a computer that will blow up.

 

Also, if there a way to pick the secondary card on windows from when I not playing? If I recall in a similar computer we just disable the 3D settings in the default profile and set it to enable only for the programs that we need them. Is that it?

 

Thanks in advance


Intel, Windows XP Pro
  • 1. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    steve359 Level 6 Level 6 (12,040 points)

    Macs are not designed to be gaming systems, and you sound like you burned up your Alienware (gaming-designed) doing hig-demand gaming.

     

    If you need to play many games, I would return and put your money into a newest-model Alienware or equally good-named gaming laptop.  Or switch to desktop gaming where liquid cooling systems are an option.

  • 2. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    ds store Level 7 Level 7 (30,305 points)

    Seriously, laptops are not for 3D gaming period, just a occasional diversion.

     

    All of Apple's machines are not designed for 3D gaming, this includes the MacPro as one can't find video card upgrades.

     

    Your best option in this category is a Windows 7 3D gaming tower.

     

     

    Someone mentioned that the Apple store recommend NOT using cooling pads... Why not?!

     

    Tests have been done and they are essentially ineffective, likely because the bottom is solid metal with no vents.

     

    The hardware and software works together to establish a threshold of appropriate cooling etc., if this balance gets thrown off then there could be problems. Some here have reported extreme temperatures with doing just about nothing with the machine but surfing the web.

     

     

    I have 1 month to return this thing and if this will crash like my Dell with I am not ready to waste another 3k on a computer that will blow up.

     

    I suggest you return it and get a Windows 7 3D gaming tower, this way you get awesome cooling and the option to upgrade the video card, SLI 4 cards at once if you want too.

     

    Mac's and laptops in general are NOT 3D gaming machines.

     

    http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=ogl&order=desc

     

     

    Perhaps this is more in your liking.

     

    http://www.gizmag.com/asus-republic-of-gamers-tytan-cg8890-gaming-pc/24199/

     

     

     

    Also, if there a way to pick the secondary card on windows from when I not playing? If I recall in a similar computer we just disable the 3D settings in the default profile and set it to enable only for the programs that we need them. Is that it?

     

     

    Your asking waaaayyy too much of the Mac, it's just basically a beginners computer and the option to run Windows is  a "switcher" tactic.

     

    The extra features and options of generic PC computers are not available.

     

    Get a Windows 7 3D gaming tower and be happy.

     

    What is up with 3D gaming on Mac's?

  • 3. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    BrasilWill Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks, Steve.However I belive the reason for the 3D video card is to capturethe market that includes me...

    I need to know is someone has ever reached hardware failure with these machines due to heat (or anything for that matter)

     

    I will not give dell another penny... Dell has been the only company I had hardware failure... I've had 3 Dells... all died, 4 IBM/Lenovos... Still using them today... 1 No Name... is my wife's computer, now....

     

    I do not do high end gaming and am not expecing to do it... I just need to make sure that this heat that I will will not melt anything and I will lose my work stuff...

     

    At least with the PCs I can at least tkae out the drives and back them up... this one is sealed.

  • 4. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    BrasilWill Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks DS Store,

     

    I travel 24/7... desktops are nice, but they are heavy and do not fit in the overhead.

  • 5. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    steve359 Level 6 Level 6 (12,040 points)

    MBP can be opened to allw HD/SSD and RAM replacement.

     

    iMacs make HD replacement hard, though, and macminis can make some operations difficult.

     

    As to "overheat", MBP uses the entire skin as heatsink and is designed to sit on hard/flat surfaces.  Tht way the heat expands beyond the skin easily.  In short, it is a "notebook" and not a "laptop" or "blankettop".

     

    Still, MBP is general-use computing, with video-processing heat being an issue that users deal with.

  • 6. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    ds store Level 7 Level 7 (30,305 points)

    I just need to make sure that this heat that I will will not melt anything and I will lose my work stuff...

     

    The PCs I can at least tkae out the drives and bock them up... this one is sealled.

     

    The more you heat the machine, the more vent cloggin dust gets inhaled and blocks the exhaust ports which causes premature death of the machine.

     

    See the pictures here:

     

    Mac buying and maintenance advice

     

    With newer MacBook Pro's being all sealed up, means one can't access the fans and clean the vents occassionally.

     

    My Early 2011 had two dust bunnies on each vent already after 18 months of use, luckily I'm able to clean this area safely and extend the life of the machine, not so with the newer models.

     

    With gaming especially one needs to clean the machine of dust, easier to do with a tower than a laptop.

     

    With Apple using the same Intel processors as PC's, (with Intel HD integrated graphics no less) it doesn't matter what platform you are on, the Mac will tend to be hotter as they are thinner designs, also the  Retina models have a higher pixel rates screen which cand be hotter.

     

    So your choice seems to forgo gaming and use the Mac only when necessary, save the gaming for a tower at home if you want it to last.

     

    Read my link above for other issues about making your purchase last longer.

     

    Good Luck.

  • 7. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    MillionManMosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Retracted for unnecessary hostility.

  • 8. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    steve359 Level 6 Level 6 (12,040 points)

    MillionManMosh ...

     

    Where do I begin?

     

    ds store has learned his wisdom through generations of Apple products, and has learned maintenance the hard way ... by not having an Apple Store close to do the work.

     

    As to "uses the same screwdriver bit for iPhone maintenance" ... iPhones are not user-servicable, so the "same screwdriver bit as you use to void your iPhone warranty" suggests it not be done on a Retina system.

     

    And to using an external keyboard ... why not?  Saves wear and tear and damage on the expensive internal keyboard.  Let the external keyboard takethe hit ... save the MBP replacement.

     

    I will stop there, as you are either a very experienced Apple Tech who has not declared himself/herslf as such, I will take ds store's advice first over most others.

  • 9. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    MillionManMosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I edited my post due to some unfortunate wording, and a realization that I had bumped a months-old thread. My intent is not to disrespect anyone's experience or lead anyone to actions that might void their warranty.

     

    I am very curious what Apple's perspective on the bottom cover of the Retina might be. Perhaps comparing it to the iPhone was poorly chosen; I meant only to say that the screw type was very similar. Regardless, it strikes me as somewhat odd that Apple would place warning labels for the end-user underneath the bottom cover if they weren't intended to remove it for any reason. Nowhere on the lid is is marked that removing said lid automatically voids the warranty, and to me it makes sense that you should be able to dismantle a computer to clean it. That being said, I can think of very few reasons other than cleaning that the cover should be removed. I only meant to say that it is very much possible to clean.

     

    My perspective is that it should be possible to use a device to its fullest potential and still take good care of it. Using a laptop with an external keyboard and keeping it on AC power isn't using it as a laptop. You'd be best suited with a Mac mini or similar for that kind of use. Those specific issues aren't really relevant to the topic at hand, though, that being gaming and heat dissipation, on which I have two points:

     

    1) If the MBP weren't intended to have some gaming capability, why would it have a consumer graphics card rather than a Quadro, Firepro or other workstation class card? Apple has a small but loyal base of customers who prefer their computer to be able to handle a mix of duties. If I were only running Illustrator, Autocad, Photoshop and Visual Studio, I might have considered a Dell Precision or similar mobile workstation; the MacBook offers me the same class of 'practical' power but better optimized for a bit of gaming and in a much more attractive package.

     

    2) The thermals of the rMBP are, as I stated in the post I deleted, among the best I've ever seen in any laptop:

    • Intake on either side, exhaust on the hinge, making it difficult to accidentally block any one source of airflow
    • Dual fans
    • Low sonic profile at almost any operating temperature
    • Aluminum enclosure radiates heat better than plastic

     

    Can you reduce a computer's life by running it warm? Yes and no. All of the internal parts have specified safe limits at which they can be operated, and none of them will exceed that limit as long as the computer's cooling system is operating as intended- even if they are, the computer will shut down to avoid damage. Ironically the memory is much more likely to fail due to heat than CPU or GPU, due to the fact that many designs do not incorporate heat spreaders or heatsinks of any kind for the RAM, but again this is mitigated by proper ventilation.

     

    The rMBP 15" is a powerhouse, and its cooling system is designed accordingly. i7 quad core CPUs are hot and power hungry by nature, and yet Apple has placed them into a system that runs completely cool and quiet during almost all use and still gets 7-10 hours on a charge (real world usage). Typing in my 60 degree F bedroom the surface of my computer is much closer to ambient temperature than to the 120F my CPU is currently hovering at. And if my past Macs are any indication it's built to last. I see no valid reason not to press the capabilities of a computer such as this.

     

    I do little things to minimize wear and tear, too. I keep my cat out of my bedroom. I trim my fingernails so I'm not scratching at keys when typing. And I always look with a flashlight when I plug in the MagSafe or a USB device. So I can understand a little paranoia in regard to my laptop. It just doesn't prevent me from using it.

  • 10. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    babowa Level 7 Level 7 (23,280 points)

    Using a laptop with an external keyboard and keeping it on AC power isn't using it as a laptop.

     

    Actually, it is: here are Apple's recommendations for laptop batteries:

     

    http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html

     

    Note this:

     

    An ideal use would be a commuter who uses her notebook on the train, then plugs it in at the office to charge. This keeps the battery juices flowing.

     

     

    Nowhere on the lid is is marked that removing said lid automatically voids the warranty

     

    You really expect a tacky warning label on a beautiful and sleek aluminum machine?

     


  • 11. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    MillionManMosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    That might have made more sense in context. I was referencing DS Store's guide, which recommends using a MacBook only on AC power and discharging it once per month- not the best practice for a lithium polymer battery and a complete waste of a 9.6WHr battery rated for 1000 cycles.

     

    If that's really all you're going to use the battery, why have a laptop at all?

  • 12. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    babowa Level 7 Level 7 (23,280 points)

    Well, I manage to use it while in my lap (and plugged in part of the time) or on my desk plugged in or not..... As recommended, I try to use the battery for a while and then plug it in. If I'm downloading or installing an OS update or an application (i.e. the FCE install takes about an hour) or creating a clone, it will always be plugged in.

  • 13. Re: Macbook Pro,Retina, GT650M, Windows Bootcamp and Gaming heat...
    MillionManMosh Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Oh, absolutely. There are some circumstances where it's better to have it on the charger-- under load the power draw for the computer can exceed what the A/C adapter can provide, so it will draw current from both the wall and the battery.

     

    I'm more talking about the mentality that you should use the battery as little as possible to avoid wear. One of the main things I love about MacBooks (in particular my newest, the Retina) is that you can use it as a desktop replacement, and yet still work all day off the charger if need be. If you don't need that there are cheaper alternatives.