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iPhone 4S verizon unlocked for overseas use without roaming

161072 Views 183 Replies Latest reply: Apr 6, 2014 7:29 PM by debifromfl RSS
  • Entropee Calculating status...

    Hi Nomercy, I cannot believe that Verizon blacklisted your phone. Absolutely ridiculous, especially because I believe you didn't even purchase the phone from Verizon. This is like extortion. I have a couple of other questions for you, if you don't mind. First, are you using (or have you used in the past) your phone using a SIM card with a cell phone company on a GSM network? I'm just wondering whether your able to use a SIM from both a GSM or CDMA network, or whether your limited to CDMA networks. Second, regarding the blacklisting, I'm wondering what Verizon said about the blacklisting. Did they allow you to pay a $140 fee and remove you from the blacklist because you did not purchase the phone from them, or would this not have mattered. I bought my phone from Verizon but I have upgraded since then and so my iPhone 4S is no longer on the Verizon network. Also, is the removal from the blacklist permanent? Thanks very much for your help. Turkey is probably the most beautiful country I've ever visited. An amazing place.

  • KiltedTim Level 8 Level 8 (35,850 points)

    You apparently don't understand how cellular networks work.

     

    CDMA networks do not use SIM cards at all.

     

    CDMA iPhones are effectively permanently locked to the carrier they were made for. The carrier may unlock the SIM slot for use while travelling, however that is done as a convenience for their customers.

     

    Verizon can not blacklist a phone from someone else's network. They can, however, deactivate the SIM slot in the phone if the phone is turned on and within range of the Verizon network. That is their right. A Verizon phone was never intended to be permanently removed from the Verizon network and still used.

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Tim, with all due respect, the condescending tone in your replies is beginning to irk me, I've read a number of your posts and your standard reply seems to be "You obviously don't understand......" or " you CANNOT....", and yet you've been proven wrong a few times. Nothing upsets me more than a person who claims to be certain about something when in fact they are not. Lighten up dude. Perhaps you need a long vacation. And please check your "facts" before posting, or please at least be honest enough to admit that some of the claims you are making are your understanding, but that you are not certain. You've mislead a number of people on this forum.

     

    We are not talking about using the phone in the US, and furthermore, Nomercy never said anything about using his phone in the US - he's in Turkey. Yes, I realize that Verizon is entitled to take any phones purchased from them off their network if they choose. We are not talking about Verizon's network here. I have no intention of using my iPhone on the Verizon network in the US or even in range of Verizon's network, as you say. I strictly want to use it abroad, as Nomercy has done. Got it? And once again, you're wrong about blacklisting a phone. I just got off the phone with Verizon and they confirmed that there is a blacklist. Perhaps you should listen to Abe Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

  • KiltedTim Level 8 Level 8 (35,850 points)

    Believe what you want. It won't change reality.

     

    The Verizon phone is locked to Verizon. It is not intended to be used on any network other than Verizon's for anything other than International roaming by Verizon customers.

     

    If it's not working, too bad. Figure it out yourself your buy a phone that's actually intended for use where you are.

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,795 points)

    You should have read your Lincoln quote and taken it to heart.

     

    Verizon indeed will blacklist phones for nonpayment, theft, fraud, etc. That is not what happened to nomercy777. The iPhone 4s has always, and always will be locked on the CDMA side. It was also locked on the GSM (microSIM) side. It was possible within the terms of Verizon to unlock the GSM side, within limitations, for international use. nomercy777 did not use this route. He used an unofficial means, such as a hack, jailbreak, or Gevey SIM, to unlock the iPhone. When he updated his iPhone to iOS 6.0.1 it stripped out the unofficial unlock and relocked the iPhone to Verizon. Read through the threads here and you will see many with this problem, particularly with the iPhone 3Gs (primarily AT&T in this case).

     

    nomercy777 can either do an official unlock with Verizon, or he can wait for a hack to be available for 6.0.1. Then every time he updates he will have to go through this again. This is not blacklisting. His phone has not been blacklisted (although it probably would be if he tried to open a Verizon account in the states).

     

    If you buy no contract Verizon iPhone 5 the GSM side of the iPhone will NOT be locked. No unlocking or hack required for the GSM side of the phone. But some have reported texting issues on other carriers (particularly in Russia).

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Deggie, thank you for the information. I had not realized that Nomercy had modified the iPhone he is using. However, I stand by my statements about Tim's posts. The fact is that he has presented information as though he is certain when it was later shown that he was wrong. I think that it would be far better for people to be forthright with others on this forum and admit when they are unsure of something. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you do not know something or are uncertain, rather than run the risk of misleading people. The intent of this forum is to assist one another with our experiences and help one another solve problems, not put others down while boasting about how much more knowledgeable we are. 

     

    Nothing that I stated in my post was not factual. I stated that Verizon does blacklist phones, and they do. Whether Nomercy's phone was fenced when he purchased it, or whether he purchased a legit iPhone and then modified it in some way, is unknown to me. The point is that it seems possible, when abroad, to use an iPhone that was once on the Verizon network but is no longer as, according to Nomercy, this is what he has effectively done by paying $140 in order to use the phone, off of the Verizon network, with a SIM card from a foreign carrier. This is what I wish to do with my iPhone. If I have to pay a $140 fee to do so, so be it. It's cheaper than buying another world phone. Whether this will allow me to use a foreign SIM with a GSM and/or CDMA network, I do not know. This is why I asked Nomercy to clarify this for me.

     

    I have done nothing to modify my iPhone, nor do I plan to. If, in the end, I cannot use it abroad then it is useless to me, and so I might as well sell it. As I see it, modifying it will only decrease it's value since I have one year of AppleCare remaining on the phone.

  • KiltedTim Level 8 Level 8 (35,850 points)

    Entropee wrote:

     

    I stated that Verizon does blacklist phones, and they do.

    The fact is, though, that they can NOT blacklist a phone from being used on a different network. You present the statement as though it is universal fact. It is not. You are the one who is in error.

     

     

    The point is that it seems possible, when abroad, to use an iPhone that was once on the Verizon network but is no longer as, according to Nomercy, this is what he has effectively done by paying $140 in order to use the phone, off of the Verizon network, with a SIM card from a foreign carrier.

    Verizon does not offer this option. It is at best, a hack, and at worst, illegal.

     

    If that sounds better to you than staying legitimate, great. Take it somewhere else. Discussing it is forbidden here by the terms of service.

     

    I have done nothing to modify my iPhone, nor do I plan to. If, in the end, I cannot use it abroad then it is useless to me, and so I might as well sell it. As I see it, modifying it will only decrease it's value since I have one year of AppleCare remaining on the phone.

    Yes, you may as well sell it, because if you modify it, the AppleCare agreement is void.

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    So Tim, let me understand something here - and I'm not trying to be snarky, I would really like to understand this. If Nomercy had to hack his phone (or modify it in some way) in order to get it to work on the network in Turkey, I am not interested in this because, as you correctly pointed out, my AppleCare plan would be void and I do want this to happen. However, if Verizon is ok with his phone being used in Turkey, outside of the Verizon network, after he pays a $140 fee, what would prevent them from providing this same option to someone who has an iPhone that is no longer on the Verizon network but is only being used abroad?

     

    I'm wondering if it wasn't the hack that caused Verizon to blacklist Nomercy's phone, rather it was that the phone was stolen and Nomercy (perhaps unknowingly) purchased a stolen phone that had been reported to Verizon (which prompted them to blacklist the phone). If hacking a phone resulted in blacklisting by Verizon, then clearly MANY people with iPhones (and Android) phones would be blacklisted. But here's the rub - and perhaps the problem I will confront - I am wondering if hacking (or modifying in some way) the phone is absolutely necessary in order to get it to work with a SIM card overseas once it is removed from the Verizon network. If so, then I'll sell my phone. There seems to be some disagreement on this point, however, as Apple and Telestial tell me that it is possible to use my iPhone, without any modification, overseas with a foreign SIM card, even though it is no longer on the Verizon network, while you and Verizon seem to feel that it is not possible. I'll bring the phone with me on my travels and see if it works.

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    I'll update my last post. I called Apple and spoke with someone in their upper tier technical support department. They said that they could see, from their computer system, that my iPhone 4S was still locked to the Verizon network but that it was possible to unlock it from the Verizon network by connecting the phone to iTunes and restoring the phone. I did this and received a message telling me " congratulations, your phone has been unlocked". I also called Verizon Golbal Support and confirmed that, once the SIM card slot has been unlocked by Verizon, it remains unlocked, evem after restoring the phone using iTunes. Furthermore, the Verison rep said that I should be able to use the phone overseas with a SIM card from a foreign cell phone company without modifiying the phone in anyway, even though it is no longer connected to the Verizon network. I'll go under this assumption, bring the phone with me, and, after I return from my travels, I'll let everyone know whether I had success using the phone.

  • KiltedTim Level 8 Level 8 (35,850 points)

    Verizon does not charge a $140 fee to unlock the SIM slot. I have no idea where anyone came up with the idea that they did. IF it were Verizon telling someone that, that would either be back payments due to Verizon for service, or possibly an early termination fee. Verizon does not charge to unlock the SIM slot on any of their phones, iPhone or otherwise. They will ONLY do so for customers in good standing, however.

     

    As a CDMA carrier, the term 'blacklisting' doesn't really mean much. Verizon will simply refuse to activate a phone that was attached to an account that did not fulfill the contractual obligation and did not pay the early termination fee to get out of the contract. They will also refuse to activate any phone that was associated with an account that has a past due balance. 

     

    In effect, it's the same thing as blacklisting, but since there is not yet any comprehensive database of 'blacklisted' phones in the US, and iPhones can not be flashed from one CDMA carrier to another... well, the term really doesn't apply.

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Ok. Thanks very much Tim. For future reference, I'll let everyone know how I make out after I return from my trip.

  • nomercy777 Calculating status...

    Dear Entropee

    I think I did not share some details and I beleive these details are important.

    I bought my phone from an apple store in california last year.Apple announced the world phone thing at that time with iphone 4s but the unlocked versions were not at the market at that time so I asked the apple representative in the shop "May I use a cmda phone GSM slot outside of US" He said yes becasue the phone is world phone.He also mentioned I can not use the in the US with any other us network service provider other than Verizon. I thpught its a good idea and I bought it and I immediatley insert my turkish network provider SIM card into the phone sim slot part and it automatically found AT&T becasue my network proivder has an agreement with AT&T when I am in US.Apple guy also shocked becasue he has just told me that this phone can not work with any other network provider

    Anyway I dont have a Verizon contract or number from Verizon but the phone is locked to Verizon.I am aware of this fact but this phones GSM slot part is unlocked to any carrier.Just about a month ago after I upgrade my phone to 6.0.1 ;phone did not recognise my turkish SIM card that where I start to make a reseach on the net. After reading all these discussions and opinions I found a guy here in Turkey that can get in touch with me by Verizon and can unlock my phone SIM slot card.It is locked remotely becasue I have never bought a contract from Verizon and Verizon thinks these kind of phones are stolen or lost. Thats where they add the phone to their blacklist.I dont know whether Verizon or this guy asked 140$ to delist the IMEI number from the blacklist but just after I paid I have seen the same warning on my computer screen " congratulations, your phone has been unlocked" .I think this is becasue I am not a Verizon customer.Now I am using the phone in Turkey, Germany, France and England.If you already have seen the same warning in the itunes screen I think you will not have a problem.

    Othet than this thank you for your nice comments about my country I wish everyone can have the same opportunity at least once in a life time to see here.We are also cheap to have a great vacation.

    Regards

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Thank you very much for your explanation Nomercy. I greatly appreciate it. It's unfortunate that, after spending all that money on an iPhone, that you had to pay more money to get it unlocked again. I'm wondering whether Apple would have helped you with your issue once your phone was no longer operational since you bought it legitimately from an Apple retailer, but I guess that's water under the bridge at this point. I'm glad to hear that you were able to resolve the issue you had with the phone and get it working again. I'm also glad to hear that you got the same message I did about unlocking the phone since this makes me feel a,little more hopeful that I'll be able to use my iPhone 4S abroad. Incidentally, Apple released an unlocked version of their iPhone 5 here in the US today so, if nothing else, I suppose I could sell my iPhone 4S and buy an unlocked iPhone 5.

     

    When people ask me where I think everyone should visit, I tell them Turkey. It should be visited by more people, as it is extremely beautiful there. Very warm and welcoming people as well. Thanks again Nomercy and be well.

  • nomercy777 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Dear entropee;

     

    I totaly agree with you about paying an additional amount but I love my phone and I dont like jailbreaking or hacking the original software. I dont like to mess with these stuff. I am pretty sure you will not have a problem.If you will have a problem please let me know maybe I can ask the same guy to check is it blacklisted or not becasue this unlocking thing is permanent if they are making it officially and this guy is making it properly(I mean applying to the customer service and other stuff) not only for Verizon almost any locked phones AT&T, Sprint, even Japan Softbank for different rates.Once you see the sign " congratulations, your phone has been unlocked" this can not be changed. At least this is what I have learned from many forums and discussions on the net.I am also planning to have iphone 5 but the official sale has not been started yet here in Turkey/Antalya.

    I wish you to come to Turkey again especially in the summer time to enjoy the sun (40-45 C' degrees celcius).Take care and godd luck.

    Kind Regards

  • Entropee Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Thanks again for all of your assistance Nomercy. I will let you know whether I was able to use my phone overseas after I return ffom my trip. And thank you very much for your offer to help. That's very kind of you. Take care!

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