Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 7:57 AM (in response to etresoft)
Your point is moot since Apple itself has admitted that their map product is flawed enough to warrant apologies and firings. A better point would be to address the strategic goals of Apple when they release necessary security fixes along with unnecessary program upgrades that change the basic functionality of the product. This is often done without the fundamental changes in that functionality being made perfectly clear by Apple, leaving it up to the consumer to try to figure whether or not to apply the upgrade, and what the results will be. An example of this is the os6 upgrade where Apple describes their great new map upgrade, but not a word about there being no more Google Map functionality, and no choice to go back. Snow Leopard sync was eventually bricked with the Lion upgrade, while Apple included the much older Win XP in iCloud capability, which proved that Apple could have included their older os's if they wanted to. This whole scenario is frustrating to Apple customers who are committed to the Apple system, and own several thousand dollars worth of Apple products that go obsolete in just 2-3 years. What does a business owner do with an investment in hundreds of Apple products that are no longer function as they originally did? Is it Apple's goal to sell hardware or make their system better for their customers? The wrong answer will eventually put them out of business.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 2:20 PM (in response to etresoft)
Again, Etersoft, the ultimate Apple warrior has never ever been to Edgar street, yet insists that Apple maps does a better job than Googke Maps. Whatever he has proved for himself in a lab does not translate in the real world. In the real world, type in 8-10 Edgar street in Apple Maps, you will find yourself 350 meters off target when following Apple Maps direction. In the real world, using Google maps, you will blindly follow google maps and arrive at your desired destination. Etersoft is a shining example of a potential level 12 super warrior. Mother will be very proud.
Apple maps is useless for reliable navigation. Google maps needs no explanation. Anyone who has used it on a regular basis know its limitations. In my three years using google maps, it served my purposes very well and always reliably.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 2:45 PM (in response to Bobdc6)
Your point is moot since Apple itself has admitted that their map product is flawed enough to warrant apologies and firings.
You're not up on current events. It may be that the Maps and the apology for it were employed to make personnel changes that were long overdue.
....The wrong answer will eventually put them out of business.
Now is the perfect time of year to put your theory to the test. I was out shopping today. Big crowds and lines everywhere. I went in FutureShop to check the price of Thunderbolt hard drives (still too much). All 8 ailes of PCs, laptops, peripheras, etc were completely empty but there was a crowd around the two Apple tables. Did I say two tables? Didn't there used to be only one Apple table in that store? I tried to wedge my way in to see if they finally had any retina machines I could look at - no dice. They didn't have the new iMacs either. They did have an iPad mini, but I wasn't interested in that.
FutureShop's non-Apple technology business is dead as a doornail. They have doubled their Apple display and are attracting crowds even without the latest Apple products. Will Apple eventually go out of business? Maybe - but not this year.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 3:04 PM (in response to etresoft)
Blah blah blah I'm an app developer blah blah blah please don't hurt my apple or I can't make my 99cents selling apps that are of a dubious quality blah blah blah
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 3:17 PM (in response to duckdive)
Again, Etersoft, the ultimate Apple warrior has never ever been to Edgar street
And how do we know that you have?
yet insists that Apple maps does a better job than Googke Maps. Whatever he has proved for himself in a lab does not translate in the real world. In the real world, type in 8-10 Edgar street in Apple Maps, you will find yourself 350 meters off target when following Apple Maps direction. In the real world, using Google maps, you will blindly follow google maps and arrive at your desired destination.
Your stubbornness in the face of facts is breathtaking.
More and more I am beginning to suspect that I have been closer to this particular address than you have ever been. In fact "8-10 Edgar Street Stonnington Victoria 3146 Australia" isn't even a real address according to Australia post:
The city name Stonnington isn't even used in addresses. You are supposed to use the suburb name. This is why Apple Maps automatically corrects it to "Glen Iris, VIC 3146 Australia". That is also why the City of Stonnington lists its city as "Malvern". Curiously, Google Maps doesn't automatically correct such a malformed address. You actually can't find any addresses using a city of "Stonnington" with Google Maps. The only result is a long-closed daycare. Now, if I manually correct your incorrect city to "Glen Iris", then Google can correctly find addresses as well as Apple Maps.
So, who are we supposed to believe has the better knowledge of Edgar Street?
The City of Stonnington, Australia Post, Google Maps, Google Street View, Google Satellite View, and Apple Maps?
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 4:58 PM (in response to etresoft)
Again, Etersoft who has never been anywhere near this place is sitting in a lab telling us about local knowledge.
Etersoft's side show is designed only as a sideshow. The only test of a navigation map is in real world use. Im in a car, want to get to location, click a link in urbanspoon, or a link of a webpage or a link from a contact. Etersoft has presented here his information based on theory. That is why Apple Maps is useless. Because it can only be proved in theory how great the application really is. But if you get in the car, and try to use it in the real world, you will end up as often as not off target.
For anyone curios, how I ended up with the address written out as 8-10 Edgar Street Stonnington Victoria, Ill explain. I clicked a link and saved it to my contacts. Then I clicked Apple Maps and it took me 350 meters off target. I copied and pasted the exact address into Google Maps and it took me to the back entrance of the place I was looking for. I can see now that the business itself doesnt list its address as it appears on the link i found it from.
But then to follow, if for example, I went to google maps and wrote in Harold Holt Swim Centre, Google Maps will take me to the exact location. If i type the exact same request into Apple Maps, it will return "No Results Found." There are many ways to write addresses and Google Maps handles them very very well. Id go as far as to say google maps is excellent. The exampe that i showed illustrates that in one instance, Apple Maps leads me 350 meters off target and in the other, Apple Maps doesnt find the place at all. With Google Maps, both times it will have me at either one end or the other of the business I was trying to locate.
Etersoft, if it were up to me, you would be a level 13 moderator by now just for your dedication to the cause. It is admirable. You are a true warrior.
(Just as sidenote, I can see now why 8-10 Edgar street is listed as the address. It is the City Of Stonnington Car Park and thus is it listed as such. Etersoft would not understand that City of Stonnington would regularly list a council operated location as that. In his lab, it is difficutl to understand how things work in the sunshine.)
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 4:57 PM (in response to etresoft)
"You're not up on current events. It may be that the Maps and the apology for it were employed to make personnel changes that were long overdue."
I'm up on current FINANCIAL events, and for one to believe that a major corporation, such as Apple, would torpedo a major product as an excuse for the CEO to fire a couple of high level employees requires the suspension of reality on the part of investors.
If in fact, Apple does go out of business, it will take years, look at Microsoft, still in business. That's why I said "eventually".
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 5:30 PM (in response to Shilts9)
In 13 years of using Apple products, ive probably used these discussion boards on occasion. I could be wrong, but belive the only use I ever had for here was looking for help with technical issues.
In the 13 years, I don’t think I really had any major complaints with changes to products or updates that effected my use. Probbaly the most annoying thing Apple ever did that effected my use of their products was when the change of Expose in 10.6 to whatever it is in 10.7. I still don’t understand what is going on and therefore will not upgrade my desktop. I use Expose all the time when I have seemingly hundreds of windows open. I figure that some people will prefer Expose and some people will prefer the upgrade. It is completely subjective.
This Maps issue is a different. It ruined the way I use my iPhone. I use maps all the time. It represents 30% of the way the phone is used. Apple took away a perfectly functioning service and replaced it with Apple Maps. Apple maps is completely unreliable in the wider world and therefore is a nice toy. No business person would rely on it. It is not subjective. The Map Application either gets you to your destination or it doesn’t. Apple Maps was given very little chance from me. It took me twice to wrong addresses, approximately 300 meters off target each time. And once it took me down a dead-end street. This was all in Melbournes oldest and most established suburbs. There was one more instance where it had failed and I cant recal now. Then add the “no results found” and the fails add up. All of this was in the first few days of using it. If it has such a high fail rate in such a short time, it does not warrant a second look when Google Maps in 3 years had never ever ever made such errors in my navigating experience.
It would be of little consequence if the Apple Maps app was simply an application we could choose to use or leave. Unfortunately, the mapping app is integrated into the phone. User experienced is for the first time in my 13 years of using apple product severely diminished in an upgrade.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 9:42 PM (in response to duckdive)
For anyone curios, how I ended up with the address written out as 8-10 Edgar Street Stonnington Victoria, Ill explain. I clicked a link and saved it to my contacts. Then I clicked Apple Maps and it took me 350 meters off target. I copied and pasted the exact address into Google Maps and it took me to the back entrance of the place I was looking for.
Ah. That explains it. The only place that "8-10 Edgar Street" address actually shows up is a now-closed daycare from Google's results. That address with "stonnington" is actually invalid. Google web search returns the daycare at "19 Edgar Street". Google web search returns that location for any address in "stonnington". Apple Maps is able to find any address in "stonnington" except "8-10 Edgar Street" because that really isn't a place. Apple Maps can find "8 Edgar Street" or "10 Edgar Street" or anything else in the neighbourhood.
But then to follow, if for example, I went to google maps and wrote in Harold Holt Swim Centre, Google Maps will take me to the exact location. If i type the exact same request into Apple Maps, it will return "No Results Found." There are many ways to write addresses and Google Maps handles them very very well.
Actually Apple Maps seems to handle addresses better than Google Maps. It is just that when an address search fails in Google Maps, it falls back to Google's web search. Your results clearly demonstrate that. When you entered an incorrect address, Apple Maps succeeded where Google Maps failed. If you just entered text, Apple Maps fails but Google search succeeds. Had you actually entered the location of Harold Holt Swim Centre from its website, "Corner High & Edgar Streets, Glen Iris, 3146", Apple Maps would have taken you right to it. Neither system would have found Harold Holt Swim Centre from "8-10 Edgar Street" because it isn't there.
This is not a failure of Apple Maps, but a failure of Siri. Siri cannot find "Harold Holt Swim Centre" and makes me search the web for it. From there, I can find it, copy the address, and paste it into Apple Maps to go right to it. Siri definitely needs improvement, which is why it is still in beta. The fact that Siri is still incomplete is probably what is getting people fired. Apple Maps is doing the best it can with the data provided.
However, none of this supports your assertion that Apple Maps is "completely unreliable". Your map is only as reliable as your address. You started with an incorrect address. Had you been trying to look for someone's house with an address in "stonnington", Google Maps would never have gotten you there. Apple Maps would have. Is Siri as powerful a search tool as Google? Not even close. Does Apple Maps have every place name in the world? Certainly not. If you get "no results found", you need to provide a better address. Does that mean Apple Maps is "completely unreliable" because it can't find a single municipal pool? Hardly.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 9:51 PM (in response to etresoft)
You are living in the theory of your lab.
Fact, two searches with correct search criterea are given to Google Maps. Both times they take me to exactly the location i desired to be at. It was not necessary for me to give details beyond what i was provided.
Fact, two searches wtih Apple Maps failed to get me to the location. First attempt gives me "No Results Found" and second attempt takes me 350 meters off target.
You can talk about the reasons and theories till the cows come home. But if the cows are relying on Apple Maps to find their way, we fear you will be talking a long time.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 1, 2012 10:19 PM (in response to Meg St._Clair)
Because he is in a lab analyzing what I actually did while driving in my car to the location in question. Therefore his is all theory based. It is evident that he lacks any local knowledge. It is evident that he is trying to confuse the issue. I simply used Apple Maps to find a location. It failed. It has been clearly explained.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 2, 2012 4:21 AM (in response to KC7GNM)Currently Being Moderatedin response to Geo82)
Although a couple of hours have passed I am, if anything, even more angry at what Apple have forced upon me.
I'm actually I'm shock at how poor 'Apple Maps' is. It's absolutely awful.
Where I live in Scotland Apple Maps is not only bereft of detail. It also has street names wrong and even streets that do not exist. The directions are often wrong. Motorways cannot be distinguished with ordinary roads and there are no junction numbers. I cannot find any of the local business that I support, all in all it's a total cluster f*ck.
As someone who previously relied on Google maps I can only assume that this is some sort of cruel joke from Apple, carefully designed to torture us.
They have taken a really expensive piece if hardware that I have to work hard afford and in one software update seriously weakened it, especially if like me you are a frequent user of google maps in ios5.
It's such a backward step it's hard to imagine it would have happened when Steve Jobs was alive.
It's horrendous, I'm so angry about it as it really affect my day to day business.
'Apple Maps' is probably the worst piece of software Apple have ever produced. It's absolutely stinking.
Apple didn't force anything on you. You could have stayed with 5.1.1 but you chose to upgrade. I don't remember them holding a gun to my head telling me to upgrade or else.
Come on!! Really KC7GNM?!! Has it escaped your attention that Scott Forstall has been forced to resign over the matter?!
You must work for Apple or something. I've been an Apple fan and user for years but have to say that they really did mess up. And as for the new Maps app being better than Google maps; I think you're on your own there (with the exception of Scott Forstall perhaps).
How can anyone 'recce' a route with no junction numbers on uk roads? Just the tip of the iceburg and a major failure on the part of Apple, hence the public apology.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 2, 2012 7:08 AM (in response to duckdive)
I have to say that your stubbornness has really helped to dispell a lot of the Apple Maps bashing. Had you just said that "Apple Maps failed to find 'Harold Holt Swim Centre'", I wouldn't have had a good response to that. It is no secret that
Google's spatially-enhanced web searching is one of its most powerful features and one of the most difficult ones for
Apple to match.
But by insisting in that bad address, you have made some meaningful contributions showing just how powerful Apple Maps is. We now know that anyone can do a side-by-side comparison of Google Maps with Apple Maps in the Xcode iOS simulator and see for themselves how good or bad it is. We now that Google is actually pretty weak in correcting bad addresses. Apple automatically corrects such addresses and locates them whereas Google just falls back on it web search. Extracting spatial coordinates from web sites is an active area of GIS research and this is an area that Apple can and will improve. If Apple doesn't, then maybe a 3rd party can...