Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 12:53 PM (in response to R C-R)
Apple also has reduced the thickness of the iMac because the integrated optical drive is no longer taking up so much space. In addition, remember the Steve Jobs justification for removal of floppy drives? He listed the reasons why people needed/used floppy disks (backups, transfers, and installs) and pointed out the reasons why these were no longer justified (hundreds of floppies to backup gigabyte disks, ethernet instead of sneakernet, and modern app publishers are using CDs and not floppies for installs). Similar arguments can be made for dropping the CD drive - software installs are moving to downloads instead of shrink-wrap CD/DVDs; backups of terabyte disks will require 200 DVD-Rs (and 1600 CD-Rs); gigabit ethernet is faster than sneakernet. But the "backup" justification falls a little flat - I may not want to backup my entire disk, but I likely will want to backup parts of it (and CD/DVD backup is still longer-term than TimeCapsule). Of course, Apple may be looking forward to the day when all your data is in the iCloud (all your data is belong to us), with Apple guaranteeing the ability to backup and restore (although it's likely that a burned CD/DVD will still last longer and be more reliable, as well as closer to home). So I can understand Apple's decision on this, but no, I don't really like it. Then again, I already have an external SuperDrive for my MacBookAir, so this decision doesn't really bother me.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 4:30 PM (in response to objectivist)
The fact that the thin edged screen is to save taking up space is laughable - ridiculous in fact. You are telling me - and Apple is telling me - that I should take up much much more space by having external DVD drives and Hard drives littering my desktop. The plain simple fact is that this decision is too soon: there is no immediate other solution which is as easy, cost effective and simple to use and manage. Steve Jobs got rid of floppy drives because he knew the CD and DVD drive was on its way. Guess what - we have to buy external hard drives or pay through the nose for iCloud - for ever. Give me a thick screen and the drive that I need (seriously, how thick is an inch?). A thin edged screen is of absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever nor is it saving the universe. Feel free to do as you wish, but I will not buy an external DVD drive nor will I buy another Apple till I get an option to have a built in DVD drive. I have used Apple hardware and software since 1984.
Software downloads are being done via iCloud to save providers money and to make you pay for using iCloud. The fact, however, is that it is costing the user a whole bunch more. The assumption is that everyone has an unlimited supply of bandwidth which is simply not the case. Even across the UK alone, there are areas that battle with less than a Mb (I know, I work on a support helpdesk). Other countries who use Apples (or did) dont have access to unlimited broadband and pay huge amounts for the little they get -some are still on dial up. Witness the frustrations with downloading Mountain Lion. The message from Apple to those users is clear - we simply arent interested in your needs or your business.
Don't give me iCloud. It is simple arrogance to assume that everyone who needs to buy/save/download something can afford to pay indefinitely for iCloud or the time it takes to use it. Very arrogant in fact. They are forgetting the hundreds of thousands of students and learners who use Apples. Their study material comes on CDs/DVDs; their music is on DVDs; their reference materials which they borrow come on DVDs; movies come on DVDs and they save their TMAs, ECAs, Projects, riz files with references onto DVDs; frequently they are required to submit their work on DVDs. As I have fed back to Apple, researchers, authors, scientists, artists will certainly not leave their work in iCloud where they have to pay for it indefinitely and where the security and copyright may be interfered with in the future. I'm not talking about backing up a whole system - I'm talking about saving work which you will want to keep for an extended period and not having to pay for the privilege.
Apple need to reconsider this decision.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:08 PM (in response to sparks2)
Sparks2: when you have your own computer company selling billions of dollars of equipment to people, you can then decide whether a decision you make should be "reconsidered". Don't talk about what you want, because you don't run the company. Vote with your dollars - that's your freedom, that's your right. If Apple decides to remove floppy disks because of their profound vision - so be it. If Apple decides to remove recordable media drives because of their profoud vision - so be it. You have options, you have other choices. If the umpteen billions of people who are loyal to Apple products decline to purchase iMacs because of a lack of recordable media drives - Apple will hear the message in their share price and their revenue. But your argument that Apple should do what you think they should do is, in your words - laughable. Because you are not Apple. You are not a visionary. You are incapable of seeing the future. As Lee Iacocca said - if you find a better deal, buy it. Beyond that, your words are just air. You have no rational argument. Apple goes its own way. In a free market, you can accept Apple's way, or you can accept someone else's. Screaming about how you want something different is, well, childish.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:28 PM (in response to objectivist)
If Apple decides to remove recordable media drives because of their profoud vision - so be it. You have options, you have other choices. If the umpteen billions of people who are loyal to Apple products decline to purchase iMacs because of a lack of recordable media drives -
You are not a visionary. You are incapable of seeing the future.
What is visionary about removing a integral part of an all in one that millions still need and desire, that companies and municipalities still have a use for. The floppy's day had come with the arrival of the CD and later the DVD. There is no immediate viable replacement for the DVD.
I desire to use a certain platform, and to then complain about the direction the company takes that disappoints,
is our right. Maybe you are incapable of seeing what is in front of your nose, please stop being so arrogant.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:35 PM (in response to Klaus1)
Klaus1: "customer feedback" is "I have a problem with something I bought." It's not "I have a problem with something you're selling." If you haven't bought it, then you're not a customer.
Please pay attention to the full discussion, don't pick and choose.
"Screaming about how you want something different is, well, childish."
If your "rudeness" quotient was ticked by the word "Screaming", please suggest another word. Given that there is no audio, there can be no actual "Screaming", so rudeness interpretations are orthogonal and just plain incorrect. If your "rudeness" quotient is ticked by the word "childish", then you really need to read both posts - sparks2 delivered a diatribe against Apple because what he wants is not available - like a child who doesn't get what he asked Santa Claus to give him. I responded with several options for sparks2 to engage in to achieve what he believes is The Right Thing To Do, and pointed out the less-than-adultness of his posting in response to mine. And he doesn't address the potential justifications I provided for Apple's decision - he simply retreats to his "Apple isn't giving me what I want" cave. If you believe non-governmental institutions like Apple should be beholden to your whims, then I suggest you foment the British Parliament to Nationalise Apple's holdings in the UK to bring about your dream.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:36 PM (in response to objectivist)
Sorry, but no, the same argument cannot be made for optical drives, as was nade for floppy drives. CD's and DVD's still account for $billions of dollars in sales of music, movies, and software. And dual layer DVD's are still a very viable option for archiving data. We use DVD's to archive data at my workplace. You can't do that with USB thumb drives cheaply!
No optical drive will also have the affect of pushing people to purchase content from apple. No optical drive means you won't be buying that CD or DVD from amazon.com, right?
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:38 PM (in response to Fred Jorge)
Fred Jorge: Apple's decision, in a free market, is just that - Apple's Decision. You can vote with your dollars to purchase a different decision made by someone else. Stop being so arrogant that you think your beliefs are better than Apple's.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:39 PM (in response to grandfield)
To add insult to injury, iFIxit did their standard tear down and the iMac is no longer user fixable for things like hard drives. I've had a hard drive failure in EVERY mac I've own. Now this new iMac will have to be sent back to apple to get the hard drive repair at an added cost. Old imac when my hard drive failed I was back up by the afternoon after a quick trip to Best buy for a hard drive. With this new imac I'd be down for weeks. I would NEVER buy this new POS iMac. This is a candidate for the worst iMac of all time.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:41 PM (in response to zBernie2)
zBernie2: How many billion-dollar companies do you run? How many do you own shares in? Your "vision" of how a particular medium accounts for "billions of dollars in sales of music, movies, and software" would dictate a very different course for Apple with respect to iTunes, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, etc. Which means - I (and very many others) do not trust your view of Apple's decisions, because you are incapable of delivering value on your whims in the several thousand percent appreciation of Apple's visions. Again, as I keep saying - if Apple is not creating the products that you want, buy something else.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:44 PM (in response to Creeper523)
Creeper523: And you should therefore never buy another one. I've got a failing hard disk in my iMac that will be outrageously expensive to replace. But I know that the value I receive for the iMac I buy - even lacking a removable media drive - is more than what I pay to own it. So I will buy another iMac. With another hard drive that I cannot easily repair on my own. And I will enjoy it more than the Windows boxes that I build and repair over their lifetimes.
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