Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:14 PM (in response to MyMac8MyPC)
I finally bit the bullet and bought a genuine Apple Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter, which arrived today, and I can't get a thing to show up through the Thunderbolt port on my new Mac Mini. Here's the system information:
Vendor Name: Apple Inc.
Device Name: Mac mini
Firmware Version: 14.1
Status: No device connected
Link Status: 0x101
Link Controller Firmware Version: 0.11.9
Think I'd better ring Apple :-)
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 5:40 PM (in response to --A--C--)
For all we know, 100% of the Mac mini out there do have the problem.
How do you know that?
I'm following this thread from the beginning, read all posts, and there are reports of people not having this problem. People without problems are not very likely to end up reading this thread and report about it.
Apple was collecting MacMini's with problems, why? Because they couldn't reproduce it with random units rolling out the factory. So there are good units out there.
And probably a large batch of bad ones, with various degrees of severity.
Your view of the problem is just as skewed as anyone's, including mine. None of us knows anything. For all you know, like I said, the people reporting "no problem" simply don't follow whatever usage scenario is necessary to exhibit the problem. That can apply equally to the testing Apple is/was doing, which would also explain why they shipped people replacement machines which were also affected.
It is perfectly possible that people with "good" machines could get a "bad" machine and not have a problem with it, just as it is perfectly possible that people with "bad" machines could get sent a "good" machine and see the same problems. Get it? That's the way tricky problems keep from being solved after weeks/months.
And there are probably plenty of people who have experienced the problem but not been troubled enough to mention it anywhere. As I have stated here, the only reason I found out it was a widespread issue is because I read it in a review on a tech site. Who knows how many thousands of people who aren't technically inclined might just be ignoring the blinking . . . for now.
There is absolutely nothing you can assume about the nature of the issue (hardware or software, incidence rates, etc.) based on what information is available. Until the problem is identified, you simply can't make claims that there is even a single working Mac mini, or conclude that is hardware issue.
It seems randomly because it is randomly. Nobody found a usage pattern yet, because there probably is none.
Technology does not work that way. It fails because it is not up to specifications, or because it gets into an unanticipated state. Or countless other specfic, decidedly-non-random reasons.
Yet ALL the iPhone4 had the same problem.
You support my point! Even if ALL devices have the same problem, usage patterns could make it hard to find and fix. Also note that the "problem" with the iPhone antenna did not lead to a recall, so if you claim there is a parity issue here, the burden is on you to say exactly what the fatal hardware issue is with the Mac mini. Since I doubt you can, consider speaking with less certainty about the issue.
This costs less then the reputation damage done by a public anouncement that all Mac Mini's were shipped with known video issues.
That is a dangerous gamble for Apple to make. If I can no longer trust Apple to announce that their products are broken, it devalues their brand in my mind and in the marketplace. How much less is my mini worth, is every mini worth, now that this problem is well-known but without a solution? I'm certainly not going to line up to buy the next Apple release if this is their new way of handling dud products. The damage to their reputation only gets worse as time goes on.
The timing to acknowledge anything is really bad now, amidst the christmas sales.
The timing is worse afterwards! Who wants the first experience with their sweet, new, gifted Mac to be one of glitches and warranty replacement hassles? Or discovering only after 2 years that, when you try to sell it, it is worth $100 less (or just plain worthless) because it was part of a known-bad release? No, Apple would be fools to follow your thinking (which is not to say you're wrong).
Don't forget this thread gives a distorted view on reality. You can't know the percentage of people having the issue.
And, again, neither can you. Until the actual problem is known, the safe assumption from a purchasing standpoint is to assume that the odds you'll get a bad Mac mini is 100% and that there will be no fix for it in any reasonable timeframe. It's not a show-stopper for me, but it might be for someone else. More troubling for me is the ongoing fiasco that has this issue pushing up towards 50 pages of comments.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 6:35 PM (in response to Doc O)
Is this what you folks are experiencing on screen? See the YouTube link below showing a blinking/ flickering Mac mini.
Perhaps if more owners of the new Mac mini post similar YouTube videos, this may help demonstrate for Apple the symptoms that you are experiencing.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 7:26 PM (in response to KevCheng)
Yes I am having the same problem, both with HDMI and hdmi-dvi adapter to a HP2511. Frustrating, called Apple once earlier today, followed their suggestions....problem came back shortly thereafter.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 8:00 PM (in response to Bigbabaloo)
This video looks to be a much more severe case than mine. In my use the black screen lasts for a few seconds and happens after a long powered off state (unplugged over night). This normally occurs after roughly 5-20 minutes following boot. Here is a link to the video I captured once again for those who may have missed it.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 8:39 PM (in response to KevCheng)
My Mini is connected to a Samsung TV through the standard HDMI cable. I'm getting fine snow (no desktop in background) and a static kind of sound. I was waiting for Carol Anne to call "Mommy!" for a minute.
(Poltergeist reference for you young people).
Pulling HDMI cable out and putting it back stopped it, but it's very annoying. vOnce per day now. - Hoping for a fix soon!
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 8:40 PM (in response to Bibbert)
I have not resorted to trying different cable adapters as my main monitor which is a small Vizio TV does not show the problem as badly as the others I've tried. I travel every week for my job and have access to many different televisions in the hotels to test this defect on. The hotel I am currently staying at uses LG TVs and that is where Iwas able to capture my video on youtube. To date the worst I have had are the LG TVs (HDMI to HDMI) and the dell monitor I have at home (HDMI to DVI). As a reply to those who think this may be a hardware issue, I still have my doubts. Historically GPUs failing because of hardware issues were due to heat and poorly soldered BGA components ( google baking a GPU in the oven ). My theory there is that under stress dedicated GPUs can get warm enough to cause solder to bead up weakening the connection, but when baked in an oven the solder gets hot enough to reflow. But that is a subject for another discussion. Our GPUs are not likely to suffer the same problems as dedicated because they are etched on the same chip as the CPU (no soldered connections). My gut feeling is that this is a driver/firmware issue based on the testing I have done. Hardware will not consistently fail less or more based on the manufacturer of the monitor, but software likely will. My tests have proven time and time again to me that the same monitors respond the same way and different from the others tested based on brand.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 8:42 PM (in response to KevCheng)
While this may or may not help, I was discussing this problem with a PC tech friend and he just smiled and said he knew exactly what was going on if it was a PC. Feedback.
While he was surprised that even through an adapter the feedback was happening, but it maybe that the feedback is being created at the HDMI port and not at the monitor side. I would put this out to everyone having the issue - are you able to run a cable without an adapter? Does that give any change to frequency? Also, how do you have the cables? Is it Mini -> adapter -> cable -> monitor or is it Mini -> cable -> adapter -> monitor? Does changing the order change anything?
Just some thoughts (I've been doing research as I need to get a new computer and Minis are looking to be the best choice, but am a little concerned with this flaw)
Currently Being ModeratedDec 3, 2012 11:15 PM (in response to GwenaR)
Tried different things, from Eizo with DVI over Adapter to HDMI -> flicker
to some TV Units with direct HDMI and again flicker...
Does your Console show the same things with display deattach attach stuff like someone mentioned before?
i'm using: https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/xlog/id430304898?mt=12 <-- this tool from the AppStore to look at the console hoping to see which Message occurs when it happens the next Time
Currently Being ModeratedDec 4, 2012 12:24 AM (in response to KevCheng)
I said I'd keep people updated on my situation, so yesterday I finally had my Mac Mini returned! I played the safe option and asked for a refund.
I was wondering if someone could answer me a simple question now I've had it returned, when do Apple refund my money? Never returned an Apple product before, so I just don't know. I have a receipt from the carrier and everything.
But my advice to anyone with the problem is to get a refund from the machine as soon as possible unless you really need it. At the end of the day you can always just buy another one once the problem is solved and finished with.
Currently Being ModeratedDec 4, 2012 1:05 AM (in response to --A--C--)
Concur with AC, this is likely a hardware problem in the GPU logic itself (not firmware, manufacturing defect, nor OSX related). The issue appears to be very reproducible-- 5-10 minutes after wake, blank screen. The problem surfaced on Win/Linux PC's in June-- no fix from Intel in two releases of MRC code. Fast forward 5 months, Mac Mini's on OSX show same problem. No fix from Intel, no fix from Apple. So, it's not O/S, not mobo, not manufacturing, not firmware-->> it's HARDWARE related to a faulty HD4000 GPU. This issue was also present in the HD3000 GPU, and Intel still has not fixed it in the HD4000.
I worked in the chip industry as a supplier to Apple (not Intel), and every version of silicon we released had issues. The game is this: you hope your customer doesn't find out the issues that don't have a workaround in firmware, because then you start a very expensive process -> redesign the chip, spin it, test it, manufacture another run at the foundry, and fab and replace new mobo's--> a process that costs millions. Everybody remember Intel's Sandy Bridge chipset design error issue found by Tom'sHardware that Intel first tried to brush off, then was forced into a recall that cost $700MM?
Everyone is foolish to think Apple or Intel will admit this is a hardware issue because EVERY Mini out there will require a new mobo with a redesigned GPU. Intel is probably pushing Apple and the other OEM's to hold off until they can get Haswell out in the spring. Apple is in danger of becoming the Dell of the 2003-05 era, by continuing to sell faulty hardware with a known cap issue claiming their mobo's weren't affected. http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/computing/hardware/dell-tried-to-hide-bad-cap acitors-problem
If you can live with the issue, keep your Mini, but its resale value will fall when this issue becomes well-known. I returned my 2012 Mini 2.6 after 10 days and bought a 2011 refurb Mini with Radeon GPU. No problem. Wake up folks, return it, and save that hard-earned cash to buy another day. Good luck!
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