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install Snow Leopard on New Mac Pro

12910 Views 110 Replies Latest reply: Jun 23, 2013 8:07 PM by dcouzin RSS
  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    Jul 18, 2012 5:48 PM (in response to NickyCee)

    NickyCee wrote:

     

    ...Oh, I know I've been told I can use some cumbersome virtual solution but why should I? I don't believe it would have been difficult for Apple to make Rosetta work with Lion....

    Guess you did not read my earlier post, which said: "Somewhat an unavoidable mistake, as Apple license to use the technology underlying Rosetta has expired for new versions of OS X, starting with Lion."

  • The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,560 points)
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    Jul 19, 2012 8:11 AM (in response to NickyCee)

    Rosetta was like running a PowerPC VM under OS X with its own memory space of up to 2GB that had to be shared by any PPC code, plug-ins etc.

     

    compare this to having 68K code hanging around and crippling and bugging OS 8 thru OS 9, 9.1 finally got 'as much as possible' out of the Finder, which itself - Finder - a huge complex "ball of string" that OS has dragged around trying to re-engineer. That 68k hurt, and I am sure so does PowerPC architecture.

     

    Carbon also didn't really have a good chance in the end to make it into 64-bit based system.

     

    When our MacPro1,1 came out even though drivers followed best practice, anyone with more than 2GB RAM (most eventually) learned that a lot of drivers were failing and had to be redone.

     

    Even Apple Disk Utility RAID was using a 32-bit driver in Lion up until recently and shedding that in order to improve performance and address space needed today.

     

    So slow evolving changes. Tiger broke with the past at the cost of Panther systems not being able to mount an array made by 10.4 but 10.4 was the first OS X where disk arrays finally started to outshine OS 9 and get over the hump and deliver better I/O. Thing where we would be today when every drive let alone SSD can deliver I/O in excess of 125MB/sec and it doesn't take much to get beyond 220MB/sec (which use to be the ceiling 12 yrs ago for OS 9 with dual channel SCSI).

  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    Jul 19, 2012 11:00 AM (in response to NickyCee)

    NickyCee wrote:

     

    Mike,

     

    I did read the earlier post and I am aware of the loss of the license. Question: With all of Apple's billions, don't you think that they could re-up their license if they chose to? Answer: Not only could they re-up their license, they could buy the licensing company and their technology. BUT they don't choose to as they don't care about their customer base as much as they should. In my strongest opinion, to not offer Rosetta with Lion is dead wrong.

    Purchase IBM just to keep PPC applications running in OS X Lion and beyond...  I don't think so!

  • DigitalPostman Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 21, 2012 8:54 PM (in response to NickyCee)

    Thanks for initiating what has become a great rolling thread NickyCee. I too was unaware of Snow Leopard compatibility in post-Lion Macs, and I've just performed the same process to get SL on a partition of my unibody MacBook Pro. Yes, the partition eats more of the drive than I'd prefer, but I have a lot of apps and plug-ins the don't run (or not well) on Lion, and several key apps that require it. I would not have thought to undertake such hoop-jumping, since I assumed I wouldn't be able to boot and update from transfer mode. who knew? (well you for one, I suppose)

  • TOAO Calculating status...
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    Dec 6, 2012 2:26 AM (in response to PixelbenderX)

    The problem here is getting somebody to listen to your question and pursue the specifics.

    I just spoke with Apple and here is the statement.

    My question was, can I install Snow Leopard on a new Mac Pro mid 2012?

    See the specifics????

    Just because somebody purchased a Mac Pro IN 2012 does not mean that it is a mid 2012 Mac Pro.

    Regardless that the mid 2010 Mac Pro and has the exact same model ID (5,1) means nothing if it is not a mid 2012.

    The short answers are.

    Yes you can RUN Snow Leopard on a mid 2010 Mac Pro....IF.... you can find a way to install it.

    NO you cannot run Snow Leopard on a mid 2012 Mac Pro due to its firmware revision and WILL have problems if forced.

    Apple also stated that this firmware incompatibility is being installed in refurbished models as well.

    That is what Apple said.

     

    I intend to prove this as being correct before long.

     

    Here is something to consider.

    The firmware in your Mac Pro is a EEPROM.

    This means that a System Installer can reprogram your firmware during installation.

    It is difficult to imagine that Apple would physically remove the EEPROM on refurbished computers when all that is required is an Installer to do the job automatically via Script.

    Why is this something to consider????

    There IS a very distinct possibility that the installation of Mountain Lion on an older Mac Pro will reprogram the firmware (EEPROM) so that it is effectively Never Snow Leopard compatible again.

    Best think twice before installing Mountain Lion on a Snow Leopard compatible Mac Pro as a secondary or primary OSX boot system. (you may very well render your Mac Pro Snow Leopard incompatible)

    The firmware revision is named XD. (execute disable)

    The XD firmware IS a good thing as it makes your system far less susceptible to malware and hackers.

    The XD firmware is a bad thing if you wish to run Snow Leopard.

     

    Mountain Lion is less susceptible to criminals.... however.... it is extremely internet and network oriented to the point where you cannot completely deactivate network activity. Mountain Lion is ALWAYS listening for a network and since Airport and Blutooth is built in on a new Mac Pro.... you cannot disbale ALL networks no matter what System Preferences you set and regardless if you have no physical electrical connection to any network.

    The only way to stop network activity is to shut the computer off. (yes I reported this bug)

    Funny huh?

    Mountain Lion is less susceptible to attack but remains open to attack. (this bug is not present in Leopard or Snow Leopard)

     

    Now for some "OPINIONS".

    Aside from that very concerning bug, Mountain Lion works quite well. (I too require Snow Leopard and Rosetta and was quite upset when my New Mac Pro would not run Snow Leopard.... my CAD runs on Leopard and Snow Leopard and does not run on Mounain Lion.... a serious problem)

     

    As with MOST all software, it will eventually be written to run on new operating systems.

    Like everyone else, I get irritated when I am forced to purchase new software for no good reason, and infuriated when I actually NEED to get something done and cannot because of this practice but THAT is the computer industry business as it now exists. Complaining will not change anything.

    Perhaps a little faith is required.

    I have no crystal ball but it seems that Apple is forging ahead with what is known to be best for the future.

    I tried Mountain Lion and it seems to be quite nice. (only mildly confusing for the first 15 minutes)

    This is not a valid test because my wife is the one who has no computer skills.

    She tried Mountain Lion and almost instantly fell in love with it.

    Seems that we who are familiar have become habitual and resist change even if the change is an improvement.

    All that really matters in the long run is a stable, reliable, computer and easy to use operating system.

    Thos who are still using old Macs (such as myself) ARE testimony to superior engineering.

    (I have ten Macs dating all the way back to the Mac Plus and every single one of them still works)

    It is up to us Mac users to toss Apple a bone once in a while and buy a new Mac just to keep Apple in business rather than crucifying Apple for making computers that last.

  • FatMac\>MacPro Level 4 Level 4 (2,065 points)
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    Dec 6, 2012 8:18 AM (in response to TOAO)

    TOAO wrote:

     

    ...There IS a very distinct possibility that the installation of Mountain Lion on an older Mac Pro will reprogram the firmware (EEPROM) so that it is effectively Never Snow Leopard compatible again.

    Best think twice before installing Mountain Lion on a Snow Leopard compatible Mac Pro as a secondary or primary OSX boot system. (you may very well render your Mac Pro Snow Leopard incompatible)...

    FWIW, I have Snow Leopard (the original OS), Lion, and Mountain Lion all installed in separate partitions and drives in my 2010 Mac Pro 6 core and Snow Leopard still works without complaint the rare times I might use it.

     

    If I had to complain about something, it'd be that printer manufacturers tend to abandon updating software for their older but still functional printers to work with the newer Mac OS's. Apple will sometimes provide its own updates but often features the manufacturers' software offered are missing. Indeed, that's why I keep Snow Leopard installed.

  • FatMac\>MacPro Level 4 Level 4 (2,065 points)
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    Dec 6, 2012 8:53 AM (in response to NickyCee)

    Indeed. The issue still is that the retail version of SL won't install on the 2010 and later Mac Pro. The later version will, at least on the 2010. It's not clear from this thread if SL can run on the current Mac Pro but it certainly can't be installed directly on one, which is a subtle difference and may be buried in Apple's response to TOAO.

  • TOAO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Dec 6, 2012 10:30 AM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    Thanks for the replies.

    Your statements indicate that the installer does not reprogram the EEPROM (firmware).

    That was very useful information.

     

    All that I need to determine is if there is any way to run SL on a Mac Pro mid 2012.

    The response from Apple MAY have been a corporate response and not an entirely technical response.

     

    Seems that it was my luck to miss the mid 2010 Mac Pro model by a matter of a couple months and received the mid 2012. Before I purchased.... I directly asked if the new machine was not only Snow Leopard compatible but Leopard compatible as well and told that it was.

    Apple offered me a complete refund due to this mistake but my good sense tells me what the future holds.

    There will come a point where new versions of operating system will not "fully" run on older Mac Pros unless they have the mid 2012 firmware revision thus leaving their owners with no choice but send the machine in for firmware update or purchase new.

    While I was and I am disapointed with this Snow Leopard incompatibility I feel somewhat lucky to have purchased a Mac Pro destined to be fully updatable for many years. (dark cloud with a silver lining)

     

    Some may not agree with this following statement but the evidence is out there.

    Nobody is perfect and they do make mistakes.

    The mistake Apple made was Lion..... the shortest lived version of any operating system Apple ever created.

    I would not reccomend using Lion.

     

    In the meantime, I will seek more info on mid 2012 Mac Pro and Snow Leopard.

    Please keep in mind.... I reference the Mac Pro mid 2012 and Not the mid 2010.

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,110 points)
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    Dec 6, 2012 10:38 AM (in response to TOAO)

    This info may be helpful (or not):

     

    Mac OS X versions (builds) for computers

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
  • TOAO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 11:00 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)

    No this did not help but is very useful information.

    In fact I read this info previously.

    You see.... the Mac Pro mid 2012 did NOT and does NOT ship with ANY installation discs of any kind.

    Strange but true.

     

    The first thing you do is make a bootable clone if you are wise.

    This stirs up yet another odd problem where the "open with" contextual command makes duplicates when a clone is produced and is another topic I commented on.

  • FatMac\>MacPro Level 4 Level 4 (2,065 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 11:02 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)

    Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

     

    This info may be helpful (or not):

     

    Mac OS X versions (builds) for computers

    Actually, I think it is. Do you think it's significant that the 2012 Mac Pro runs on 10.7.3 and up? Does that mean that it's a minimum, like 10.6.4 is for the 2010 Mac Pro, or does it mean that 10.7.3 was just what was current when the 2012 Mac Pro was put out for sale? Being that specific could just be of historical significance but MacTracker further identifies it as build 11D2001 which might mean a special build since it also identifies that build as a later OS for the 2010s and I believe the release build of 10.7.3 was 11D50. Since Apple is no longer delivering the OS installers on DVD, we're dealing with a moving target.

  • TOAO Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 12:22 PM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    Interesting note.

    I have not tried, nor do I have a justifiable reason to try Lion on the mid 2012 Mac Pro.

    It would be interesting to discover if the 2012 is not compatible with Lion but I do not have this interest.

     

    As far as a moving target goes....

    This condition has not ceased since the release of the very first computer and there is likehood that this will never cease.

    As far as Apple is concerned, they saw the error of their ways with Lion.

    No Lion installation discs.

    This caused some problems and they went back to standard procedure with Mountain Lion by offering installer discs.

     

    I would have to rub a crystal ball and cannot make any empirical statement regarding "minimum" hardware requirements except one clear statement.

    New Macs of all sorts are ALL becoming Mountian Lion compatible ONLY.

    Any other statement would be a snapshot reference to this particular point in time and renders itself nothing but an opinion.

     

    I am a retired physicist and hardware engineer who has actually deisgned the heart of a computer, the CPU.

    Your computer is NOT its operating system, it is HARDWARE.

    That in mind.... ALL software follows hardware design and hardware IS being redesigned.

    The moving target is always based upon hardware technology improvements and must proceed.

     

    As a PGA certified engineer I made the following statement decades ago. (Programmable Grid Array)

    Software is mankind's only means to introduce human error into perfectly functional hardware.

    (you would wise to call that statement.... fact)

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