9 Replies Latest reply: Dec 8, 2012 9:12 AM by Jean-Marc Sfez
Jean-Marc Sfez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Bonjour,

 

Je n'arrive pas à obtenir les ligatures "habituelles" telle que œ pour les lettres oe dans le mot œuvre.

 

Description précise de mon contexte :

— iMac 27" 2011 avec Mac OS X 10.6.8

— Logiciel Pages'09

— Document avec :

    — 'Français' comme langue pour le paragraphe contenant le texte.

    — 'Utiliser les ligatures' coché dans les propriété du document.

     — 'Common Ligatures' et 'Historical Forms & Ligatures' cochés dans la section Ligatures du menu Typographie... des Polices.

 

Dans ce contexte, lorsque j'écrit le mot oeuvre, il reste tel que, sans se transformer en œuvre !

Ceci est vrai indépendamment de la police de caractère que j'utilise (Palatino, Lucida Grande, Times, Times New Roman, Arial, Garamond Premier Pro...) !

 

A noter cependant que si j'écrit ffi, il se transforme bien en fi.

 

J'ai donc l'impression que les ligatures sont bien configurées mais que Pages ne sait pas que oe doivent se transformer en œ.

 

Merci d'avance pour votre aide ;-)


iMac, Mac OS X (10.2.x)
  • 1. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (71,700 points)

    option/alt + q on US layout

     

    option/alt + o on French layout

  • 2. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (71,700 points)

    Jean-Marc Sfez wrote:

     

    J'ai donc l'impression que les ligatures sont bien configurées mais que Pages ne sait pas que oe doivent se transformer en œ.

     

     

    Only true if you can get the œ in TextEdit but not in Pages.  Does TextEdit work?

  • 3. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    Also available in:

     

    Menu > Edit > Special Characters… > View > Code Tables > 0000000000 > Basic Latin > 0090C > double click on the œ character

     

    When you get the œ add it to:

     

    Menu > Pages > Preferences > Auto Correction > Symbol and text correction

     

    Peter

  • 4. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Jean-Marc Sfez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    TextEdit either does not support the œ ligature.

     

    What's the link between TextEdit and Pages ?

     

    Do you mean the problem is more general to the Mac OS X platform and Fonts than to Pages ?

  • 5. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Jean-Marc Sfez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for this information.

     

    I don't want to type 'alt + o' each time I'm writing words like œuvre, fœtus... but its important to know this tips ;-)

  • 6. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Jean-Marc Sfez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks a lot PeterBreis0807 ;-)

     

    This is the way to go in terms of solution, but adding [ oe | œ ] to automatic text substitution is not the solution!

     

    Why this is not the solution ?

     

    First of all, if you add [ oe | œ ], when you type a whold word like oeuvre, the substitution does not occur !

     

    Secondly, if you think about the complexity of french, you will find that it is inappropriate to systematically replace occurrences of oe by œ in words :

    • oe should be replace by œ in some words such as œuvre, œil, cœur, sœur, fœtus, vœu, œdipe...
    • oe should not be replace by œ in some other words such as coexistance, coercitif, moelleux...

     

    So, the use of automatic text substitution is an acceptable solution, but you have to register all appropriate words, and not just the graphem !

    Thats why I add the words œuvre, œil, cœur, sœur, fœtus, vœu, œdipe for automatic text substitutions.

     

    But, I discover that even with this, the solution is not perfect !!!

     

    After having register [ soeur | sœur ] in the automatic text substitution list, I discover that when I type the word soeurs (with plural), the substitution does not occur !

     

    So you have to register all singular and plural forms of words to definitely solve the problem.

     

    Thanks again for your help ;-)

  • 7. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (71,700 points)

    Jean-Marc Sfez wrote:

     

    TextEdit either does not support the œ ligature.

     

     

    That normally means that the fonts which you have tried do not support the œ ligature as a typographical feature, and it is not a problem with the app.  Do those fonts you have named do this for you somewhere else?

     

    I have by chance found one which works when you select "dipthong ligatures":  Apple Chancery

     

    I don't see how some font could know whether you were typing oeuvre or moelleux, so it is perhaps not surprising that most of them do not include oe in the ligatures they can make automatically.

     

    Is there some app you have used in the past which works the way you want, such as MS Word?  If so, I suspect it is because of a more sophisticated French proofing tool that comes with it and not connected to typographical font features.

  • 8. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Tom Gewecke Level 9 Level 9 (71,700 points)

    PS  I checked my copy of OpenOffice and found that it includes proofing tools that automatically switch oe to œ when the language is set to French, so that may be a better app for creating text like this.  You can always copy/paste it into Pages.

     

    One disadvantage of using this sort of autocorrection tool is that normally searching for a word containing oe will not work, since the œ is a totally different character.   For search to work the conversion has to be based on typographical switching within the font (which seems to be rare for oe/œ).

  • 9. Re: Comment obtenir la ligature œ dans Pages ?
    Jean-Marc Sfez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I used to work with MS Word on PC, that why I was surprised about ligatures problem on Pages.

     

    However, I just have a look to MS Word on my PC and I found that MS Word handle such ligatures using a predefined rich list of automatic text substitutions, exactly the way I've done it with the advice of PeterBreis0807.

     

    So, I definitely think that its not an Apple font problem, nor an Apple Pages problem.

     

    Its more a french support effort that Apple can do by providing a richest predefined list of automatic text substitutions like Microsoft does it with Office.

     

    Hop you hear me Apple team, I love you so much... so... do it please ;-)