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Transfer ultraviolet digital copy dvd to iTunes, not Flixster?

482862 Views 453 Replies Latest reply: Apr 22, 2014 11:51 AM by bailey#70 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • bailey#70 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I've followed this thread with great interest since I posted many months ago with my own experience with WB Home Entertainment and the Digital Copy with the Sherlock Holmes 2 Blu Ray. It's clear that there are 2 differing opinions on the matter at hand, many of those opinions seem to be that those of us who made the error of buying these products are some sort of idiot. To my mind though the following seems to come through all of this.

     

    1. All of us are paying customers, the vast majority of us had purchased Blu Ray products prior to this experience and had become used to the fact that when the package says "Digital Copy" that it usually meant that it was iTunes compatible. As consumers we were interested in two things: the movie in the box and the fact we could also play it on our laptop, iPod, iPhone, iPad or Apple TV with the software we already had in our posession. We were just as likely to read the small print on the back of the package to check that our latest purchase was still compatible as we were to check the ingredients on the packed of cornflakes to check that something hadn't just been added that would cause an allergic reaction.

     

    2. Many of us who made the mistake of not reading the small print have complained to the distributors involved and as time has passed, instead of admitting that they had perhaps made a mistake, those distributors have expanded the range of Ultraviolet only digital copies thus annoying their customer base even more.

     

    As consumers we're in the position where if we don't like the product we can choose not to buy it. For my part I made a concious decision that a) I would not check any digital copy now to ensure it is, indeed, iTunes compatible, b) I would not but any product that has Ultraviolet only and c) would not buy any WB product until such a time as they rectify the situation.

     

    In reality though this is getting harder. I would rather buy a Blu Ray with no digital copy whatsoever than to buy one with UV... but more recenty I've noticed that some movies aren't available without UV. Then there's the slight matter of the growing number of WB movies I would really like to see but can't unless I'm willing to pay them (either directly through Blu Ray purchases or indirectly through cinema tickets). Even just buying the iTunes download direct doesn't work because I don't get the shiny disk that I can take to my mates house to watch nor do I get many of the special features that come on the disk.

     

    Ok, so digital copies are in many cases an added bonus but the movie industry has very much worked to ensure the consumer expects it and has then pulled the rug out from under our feet, they then make dubious claims to suport their actions. The simple fact of the matter is that I have one digital copy that (if I redeem the code which I have yet to do) I am unable to play on either of my two Apple TV's, one of which is used in places where I do not have a Blu Ray player.

     

    In some ways this reminds me of the time a few years ago when a couple of British supermarket chains got in trouble for packaging it's own brands in such a way that the packaging could be mistaken for "real brands" such as Heinz, Coca Cola, Kelloggs, etc. It's just a shame that somebody hasn't taken the movie industry to task for not making the fact that UV was not iTunes compatible more clear on packaging which, quite frankly, looked no different to the casual observer.

     

    To comment on the final remark made by El Pat0 above, "Educate yourselves", I guess that we all learn from our mistakes. I think that what might have been more apt though is this:

     

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

  • BigPhilipK Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    bailey#70 wrote:

     

    In some ways this reminds me of the time a few years ago when a couple of British supermarket chains got in trouble for packaging it's own brands in such a way that the packaging could be mistaken for "real brands" such as Heinz, Coca Cola, Kelloggs, etc. It's just a shame that somebody hasn't taken the movie industry to task for not making the fact that UV was not iTunes compatible more clear on packaging which, quite frankly, looked no different to the casual observer.

     

    To comment on the final remark made by El Pat0 above, "Educate yourselves", I guess that we all learn from our mistakes. I think that what might have been more apt though is this:

     

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

     

    I couldn't disagree with you more.

     

    You were never fooled. The product never said that it was iTunes compatible. There was no fine print. It said that it was iPad and iPhone compatible which it is!!!!

     

    It is no different than Amazon saying that Kindle books are iPad and iPhone compatible. We know we can't use iBook but the Kindle app.

     

    You can call me an Apple fan boy. My wife and I own the following from my signature at Mac Rumors, 24" 2.8, 4 GB iMac with 23" ACD; 2.53, 4 GB 15" MacBook Pro; 2.2, 4 GB MacBook;(wife's); 2 16 gig iPhones 5; 32 gig iPad; 2 Apple TV's gen 2 and gen 3. Plus my wife has a 2 GB MacBook issued by her school.

     

    Therefore, I am guilty of being an Apple addict.

     

    Still, I know the world does not revolve around Apple and to be more precise, the world does not revolve around iTunes. There are several other sources for digital music and movies. iTunes is just one of many.

     

    Thus WB nor anyone else needs to put a disclaimer that their digital copy isn't iTunes compatible.

  • Apples in the sun Calculating status...

    I disagree with you, and agree with bailey#70. For many years most of us became accustomed that "digital copy" was iTunes compatible, and I guarantee that the marketing people at UV where aware of this. Even if legally they did nothing wrong I felt deceived. Since the newer movies on iTunes now include various languages, subtitles, extra features, and the picture quality is getting better AND I can download from iTunes all my previous purchases on all my devices while traveling, I now buy most of my movies directly from iTunes. We need to vote with our wallets, the studios will follow.

  • BigPhilipK Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Apples in the sun wrote:

     

    We need to vote with our wallets, the studios will follow.

     

    I have stated that I prefer iTunes and that you are free to make your own choices.

     

    I also have stated that I am an Apple Fanboy.

     

    However do you realize what you are advocating?

     

    With UV we can use almost any device with WIFI or Cellular Data to watch the movie. The only major exception is AppleTV. If the next AppleTV includes an app store, that will change.

     

    With iTunes we am limited to Apple hardware or a Windows Computer. They will not play on ANY mobile device except Apples. No Androids, no Kindle Fire, no B&N Nooks, etc.

     

    Now which company is limiting choice?

  • El Pat0 Calculating status...

    BigPhil is catching on...BRAVO!

     

    Unlike most of the people here (I am only guessing), I DO NOT drink the Apple Kool-Aid (Apple-Aid?).

     

    Yes, I do own Apple products, 2008 MacBook (White), 3rd Gen iPod Touch, 1st Gen iPad and 2 "Classic" iPods, so I do know the "Apple Experience" and I am not just blowing wind here.

     

    Hands down, iPods are the best thing that EVER happened to music but iTunes has got to be one of the WORST.

     

    Apple tries to do too much with iTunes and as anyone who has used iTunes 11 can tell you, it has gone from bad to worse.  Ever wonder why there always seems to be an iTunes update available? Blame the iPhone...Apple decided that it was going to use iTunes to do all the updating for that device and even if you didn't own one, guess what, we have an update for you.

     

    What BigPhil is eluding to is that Apple has slowly but surely convinced you that THEY are in charge of your devices and THEY can control what they want you to use and not use.

     

    The mp3 format is the most universal music format in the world, pretty much ANY computer OS can natively read and play it back.  Apple decided that it was going to create its own proprietary audio file system to FORCE you to use its products.

     

    That jerk, Steve Jobs, got into a fight with the guys over at Adobe and rather than back down or apologize, he condemned all iOS users to a world without Flash.  He further made it impossible for anyone to create a workaround and offer it through the App Store, even though several people had created EASY apps to do just that.  Again, Apple is FORCING you to use its products they way THEY want you to, not how you want to.

     

    At almost every iteration of a new Apple product, Apple has systematically restricted how you, the consumer, are allowed to use YOUR PRODUCTS.

     

    You all should THANK UV for forcing you out of the Lemming Line.

  • BigPhilipK Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    El Pat0 gets it and further evolved my thinking. Thanks!

     

    Apple may lose its MOJO in the future.

     

    18 months ago I helped my brother-in-law with his Android phone. It was a disaster. I hated the device.

     

    Recently I was at a friend's house and saw her Android phone. It was fantastic!

     

    I just bought the iPhone 5 so I'm going to keep it for the next 22 months. However I can see the possibility of moving to an Android if that's the better system in the future.

     

    I would hate to lose the ability to watch my movies on a mobile device if I move to Android. That's is what would to my iTune purchases. With UV I can still watch it.

     

    Maybe I just might prefer UV?

  • Chris CA Level 9 Level 9 (73,485 points)

    El Pat0 wrote:

     

    The mp3 format is the most universal music format in the world, pretty much ANY computer OS can natively read and play it back.

    and it is relatively crap (depending which version is used) compared with most other codecs.

    It is not "natively" read by any OS.

    Apple decided that it was going to create its own proprietary audio file system to FORCE you to use its products.

    They did create their own proprietary codec (ALAC, which is now open source) but they never forced you to use it.

    iTunes purchases are AAC (Advanced Audio Codec), which was created 7 years before Apple started using it in the iTunes store in 2003. It is not proprietary.

  • wleger Calculating status...

    To @EL Pat0:

     

    I make an honest mistake buying MY FIRST Ultraviolet movie. That does not make me an *** as you suggested. I fell into a marketing trap and learned from it. I feel sorry for you @EL Pat0 if you never made a mistake.

     

    The incompatibility between iTunes and UltraViolet is not universal knowledge. It clearly stated on all DVD packages. This link would not have been started if that was true oh perfect one.

     

    <Edited By Host>

  • wleger Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The question here is not about the superiority of Apple. I have had complaints with Apple dating back to the first Apple II clone that I built. Apple is a very innovative company but they still do not believe in open hardware or open software designs.

     

    I own several Apples devices that are all managed by iTunes on my IBM COMPUTER. I can view any on my movies on any of my PCs (limit 5) using iTunes. I can view any of my movies on any of my Apple devices using the O/S built-in movie player. There is no need to install a special App. I can view any on my movies on any of my TVs using a video out connector or via Apple TV. This is the system that I bought in to. This was my choice, right or wrong.

     

    The real question is who owns digital media (music, books, movies, etc.).

     

    In the “old days”, you owned what you purchased. You were allowed to duplicate your 8-Tracks, Reel-to-Reels and LPs to cassettes because you already paid the royalties to the artist and this was considered to be “Fair Use” of the product. The greedy RIAA went crazy and tried to change the rules with advent of CDs and the open Red Book specification. In the end the consumer won. Still, why did I have to re-pay royalties to upgrade my LP collection to CDs?

     

    The movie industry has always been a pain in the *** and their greed far surpasses that of the record industry. The movie industry never really complained about transferring laser discs to Beta Max or VHS. It was semi “Fair Use” for you to make backup of copies of your movies. The industry did make this difficult by playing games with the horizontal and vertical sync pulses but this could be corrected. The rules were changed with DVDs and companies like 123 Copy were shut down. It was ruled that you were not allowed to make backup copies of DVDs.

     

    Now BLU Ray is here and so is the CLOSED HDMI specification. You want HD, then you have to kiss Hollywood’s *** and let them control your life. Ever wonder why you can not buy HD movies in iTunes unless WIN 7 installed; HDMI royalties. The XP machine that I built far surpassed the HDMI spec but I am not allowed to buy HD movies. This does not make me a Lemming as one fool would assert.

     

    UltraViolet is another pieces of crap that has one purpose, and that is to shove DRM down our throats. Disney is planning to introduce their Keychest format. How nice!

     

    The very name UltraViolet is misleading because it has no relationship to DVD wavelengths. It used to be called UltraViolet Copy, which is why there is so much confusion with Digital Copy. This is a marketing ploy, plain and simple. I had a long talk with the manager at Best Buy and MANY people have fallen into this trap.

     

    Did you ever read the fine print on an UltraViolet package? The following comes off the cover of Dark Shadows:

     

    “Ultraviolet serviced providers may charge for continued Cloud access”.

     

    Do you understand what this means??? I have a serious problem with this statement and this does not make me a Lemming EL PAT0!

     

    All of my iTunes movies are installed in a folder on my computer. In the event that my Apple device dies, then I can do a full restore of every movie that I own. I backup up all of my computer data every month and that backup is kept off site.

     

    How do you backup the UltraViolet / Flixster movies from an Apple device?

     

    There is NO reason that the Flixster APP needs to be installed on any Apple device. The required software is already present at the OS level. You may need Flixster for your Android but I do not need it nor do I want it. Moreover, I will not buy ANY movie that only provides UltaViolet. I will do without the move.

     

    Having to rip a copy of newly released movie is not the solution. Jail-Breaking my iPad is not a solution. I did it already and there was no real advantage for me.

     

    This is not a war of Apple Vs Android and it really has little to do with iTunes because you can buy direct from iTunes. It is a war on our rights as consumers. It is about who owns digital media. It is about copy write and “Fair Usage”. It is about the greed of the movie industry.

     

    If I buy a digital movie, the format and the playback device are immaterial. If I buy an e-book, the format and the reader are immaterial. To be more specific, I should not have to pay double or triple royalties for something that I already own.

     

    UltraViolet is a lease on digital movies not an ownership.

  • Chris CA Level 9 Level 9 (73,485 points)

    wleger wrote:

     

     

    UltraViolet is a lease on digital movies not an ownership.

    So is everything you purchase in iTunes, GooglePlay, MS etc. Same with all DVDs & CDs.

    You are simply purchasing a license to use it in a way the license states you can.

  • wleger Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    You are correct Chris but I do not think it is this simple.

     

    Quinn Norton wrote a very good article on this topic. I have to try to hunt it down. It all comes down to a loss of rights.

     

    My engineering gut says that UltraViolet in torjan horse. Time will tell. I personallt hope it ends-up in the technology grave yard next to LISA and Windows ME

     

    Long Live DOS and CP/M

  • BigPhilipK Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    wleger wrote:

     

    “Ultraviolet serviced providers may charge for continued Cloud access”.

     

    Do you understand what this means??? I have a serious problem with this statement and this does not make me a Lemming EL PAT0!

     

    All of my iTunes movies are installed in a folder on my computer. In the event that my Apple device dies, then I can do a full restore of every movie that I own. I backup up all of my computer data every month and that backup is kept off site.

     

    ......

     

    UltraViolet is a lease on digital movies not an ownership.

     

    Yes, that bothers me. However the same is true with iTunes!

     

    You may have a physical copy but if Apple were to shut down iTunes they could stop all access to your DRM rights movies and TV shows.

     

    I am at my max with five computers. When I had just four I never had a problem with authorization. Now with five I occasionally get a message saying that the iTunes is having problems with the store - sign out and then sign in again. When that happens I can't play any of my iTunes Movie purchases on that computer.

     

    If Apple were to pull the plug on your account, the next time your computer was on WIFI and you run iTunes, you lose access. Then when you sync your iPhone/iPad, you will lose access to DRM files.

     

    Want proof? Go to your account in iTunes and notice the option to de-authorize all your computers. Do show and you can no longer play your DRM movie files until you re--authorize.

     

    I bet you that in the large Terms of Service that Apple makes us approve periodically, there is a disclaimer. Note that each time you agree to it, the NEW terms apply to you with all past purchases. Thus they can change the rules at any time and if you want to keep purchasing or updating apps you have to agree to the new terms.

     

    So Apple and UV are exactly in the same boat when it comes to who owns the files and if they can prevent you from playing them.

     

    BTW, you can download most UV HD files to your PS3 and some other devices.

  • Joseph Bruni Level 1 Level 1 (120 points)

    BigPhilipK wrote:

    Now which company is limiting choice?

     

    Ultimately, the studios who require Apple to lock up the movies in DRM in order to sell the content. We have been down this road before with music.

  • Chris CA Level 9 Level 9 (73,485 points)

    BigPhilipK wrote:
    Want proof? Go to your account in iTunes and notice the option to de-authorize all your computers. Do show and you can no longer play your DRM movie files until you re--authorize.

    Not really.

    If you Deauthorize all, those other computers will still play all content. The one you Deauthorized from will not as it has communicated with the iTunes store.

  • BigPhilipK Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Chris CA wrote:

     

    BigPhilipK wrote:
    Want proof? Go to your account in iTunes and notice the option to de-authorize all your computers. Do show and you can no longer play your DRM movie files until you re--authorize.

    Not really.

    If you Deauthorize all, those other computers will still play all content. The one you Deauthorized from will not as it has communicated with the iTunes store.

     

    You may be in the wrong account section.

     

    Open iTunes. Then go to iTunes Store. In the upper left hand corner is a drop-down buttong that has you account name. Push that button and go to "Account".

     

    You will be on a page that gives you an account summary, iCloud info, Purchase history, and settings. Under "Account Summary" is the option button to de-activate all computers. It is next to the number of computers you have activated. I have 5 activated so the option is there. It is possible that if you have less than five, the option may not be there.

     

    My main point is Apple can shut down all your DRM rights files if they want to.

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