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Searching  in iTunes 11

908 Views 18 Replies Latest reply: Mar 10, 2013 5:05 PM by white_shadow RSS
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James Thomson Level 1 Level 1 (85 points)
Currently Being Moderated
Dec 11, 2012 6:39 PM

I used personalized comments in the comments column to sometime groups music files that I'm working with.  In iTunes 11 after failing to pull up results in search by searching for my own earmarks in "comments" column I was very disappointed to think entries in "comments" was no longer searchable in iTunes 11.  But then today at work (I'm a music teacher), for some reason the search worked perfectly and by search for my own earmarks in "comments" all the files I wanted pull appeared.  I am certain that I am not being inconsistent or erroneous in my search entries and I am positive that iTunes search is acting unpredictably.  What's this bug about?

iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.8)
  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 15, 2012 8:14 AM (in response to James Thomson)

    If you have been able to find results from your comments field you're doing better than I. I have not been able to do so at all in iTunes 11. I consider this a serious flaw!!!

  • kilima Level 3 Level 3 (585 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 15, 2012 8:22 AM (in response to James Thomson)

    Glad that your search function came back to life. If the problem reoccurs that's the time to worry.

     

    What's the cause ??

    Did you have iTunes Match on ? That's the only thing I can think of off-hand.

  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 15, 2012 6:45 PM (in response to James Thomson)

    So, search entire library doesn't mean search the entire library, it just means search portions of the entire library. Alright....Who hired the Microsoft employee responsible for this nonsense????

  • kilima Level 3 Level 3 (585 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 4:27 AM (in response to LDMartin1959)

    The "Search Entire Library" means Search in MUSIC and MOVIES and BOOKS and ......

    If you deselect that choice, you only search the MUSIC library when you are in MUSIC.

     

    The "ALL" choice means all fields ..... the other choices mean what they say.

    The only "trap" here is that you have to have the field that you are searching on actually selected in the list view.

    If you want to search in the Comments field, you have to have Comments showing. (View Options)

     

    My conclusion ??

    It's certainly not nonsense and it's just much too clever to be Microsoft.

  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 7:33 AM (in response to kilima)

    "The "ALL" choice means all fields"....uh, sorry to blow your theory, but "Comments" is a field. iTunes, for all it's glitz and glamour, is a database. And any data that can be input is input into a field.

     

    So:

     

    1) if "Search Entire Library" means "search all fields", then the search mechanism is flawed.

     

    2) If it does not mean "search all fields" or it is designed to exclude the comments field, then the interface is flawed for stating something to the user that is incorrect.

     

    The fact is that if one has to resort to such twists in reasoning as you did in order to "explain" how what something says isn't what it means simply demonstrates that the problem is bad design and as such, the idea that "search all fields" can somehow be "rationalized" by the designers to mean all fields except those it doesn't search is nonsense. And, no. that isn't much too clever for Microsoft. They've been using that sort of illogical "logic" for years ("it's not a bug, it's a 'feature'").

  • kilima Level 3 Level 3 (585 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 8:15 AM (in response to LDMartin1959)

    "The Search Entire Library" and "All" are two separate choices.

     

    1). I have explained what "Search Entire Library" means.

     

    2). "ALL" ........(once again).

    "All" means all the fields that you have showing in your songs list. If you have the comments field showing, it will search the comments field. If you remove the comments field from the songs list, then it won't search in the comments field.

     

    That's the way it works now.

     

    What would happen if it searched "All fields even if the column is hidden". Then you could get the case when a search for "XYZ" returns a list of 5 songs and you can't see "XYZ" anywhere in 2 of the songs. Just as confusing for someone as the present case is for you.

     

    What we should do ??

     

    Personally, I think we should ask for another choice in the search box, so that we could choose:

    1. All fields showing in list.
    2. All fields irrespective.

    Then, having made your choice, you would know what to expect.

     

     

    Cheers

        

  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 9:49 AM (in response to kilima)

    You misunderstand me: I understand what you are saying. My point is that when one has to start using all sorts of convoluted "logic" to explain why the way something works is somehow "explainable", there is a serious design problem from the user and usability standpoint.

  • kilima Level 3 Level 3 (585 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 4:28 PM (in response to James Thomson)

    Glad to see that someone is actually kicking the tyres, James.

     

    If you have SEARCH ENTIRE LIBRARY checked, iTunes will search everywhere; Music, Movies, Books, etc.

     

    Assume you are in Music. You have a song with "kkgghh" in the comments field and the Comments Column is showing. Nowhere else (Movies, Books, etc) do you have any item with "kkgghh".

    Now enter "kkgghh" in the Search Box. Up will come a little window saying "No Results". At the very top of the window is a grey bar and written in it "Show kkgghh in Music". What this means is: "Searched everywhere and nowhere else can I find "kkgghh". Do you want to see the results for Music". If you click the grey bar, the results for Music are shown.

     

    Now go to a Movie and put "kkgghh" in the comments field of a movie and try the search again. Notice that the grey bar still asks the same question, but that the results now show that there is one Movie.

     

    To summarize:

    • If you want to search only in the place you're at, (in this case Music), toggle "Search Entire Library" Off
    • If you want ........ (well, you follow).
  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 4:52 PM (in response to James Thomson)

    James, The default configuraiton of SEARCH ENTIRE LIBRARY apparently does not seem to consider the comments field for the current selection (music, movies, et cetera) a valid field to be searched, but apparently does seem to consider the comments field for non-current selections (music, movies, et cetera) a valid field to be searched. I consider extremely user unfriendly and totally illogical. After all, if the comments field for non-current selections (music, movies, et cetera) a valid field to be searched why isn't the comments field for the current selection (music, movies, et cetera) a valid field to be searched? At this point, it isn't a quesiton of understanding or not understanding how it works (I think I understand it now), it is still an issue of being bad design. And regardless of whether or not people figure out how to make it work correctly, the issue is still, if the design is illogical and inconsistant, and if cutomers have to work that hard to figure it out, it's bad design!

  • kilima Level 3 Level 3 (585 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 5:22 PM (in response to LDMartin1959)

    You're wrong LD.

    The comments field IS a valid field for search. The iTunes Help states:

    "To search song comments, make sure the Comments column is displayed (choose View > View Options)."

     

    Why would they do this ?? Without being able to ask them, let's try and figure it out.

    The comments field can be HUGE. Some people put reviews and all sorts of stuff in there. My guess is that searching a large library with all the comments fields filled in, would slow down a search. I have a large library but I don't use the comments field much, so I can't test that. (Perhaps there is someone who can ?).

     

    And please leave off with the bad design rant LD, already. We've heard it.


  • LDMartin1959 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 16, 2012 5:42 PM (in response to kilima)

    My point, by which I still stand, is that "Search Entire Library" doesn't mean what it says. If it did, then all fields in the entire would be searched, regardless of whether or not they were visible. And for the search option to state "Search Entire Library" when it doesn't, is misleading to the user, and design which is misleading to the user is bad design. Whether you like me using that phrase or not, that's what it is and your defense of it doesn't make it not so. So please leave off with the justifications about how it isn't: We've heard it.

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