Currently Being ModeratedDec 15, 2012 9:43 AM (in response to hotwheels 22)
"normal" erase does not erase any more that the first 1000 blocks or the Directory area. The rest is just added to the free pool, NOT re-written, and this does not spare out Bad Blocks.
Initialization fails when more that 10 spare blocks are substituted. You should run it again.
Is this drive still under warranty? If it Fails write Zeroes again, you should return it under warranty.Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
Currently Being ModeratedDec 15, 2012 11:32 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
thanks grant. glad i asked.
i have to dig out my receipts to find out when i bought it then hassle with G Tech.
so - can i ask you - the fact that i /see/ the the drive and that i was able to start a Time Machine backup to this drive basically means that it was re-formatted but not re-formatted after zeroing out. and basically this warning is just letting me know this, yes?
Currently Being ModeratedDec 15, 2012 12:45 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)
On many modern drives, the format information on the drive is essentially permanent, and the concept of re-formatting is meaningless.
The important part of security erase is that the data blocks are re-written with a known-good pattern.
It probably made more than 10 spares substitutions and stopped without rewriting all blocks.
Modern SATA drives keep a list of blocks that are candidates for sparing. But the actual sparing cannot be done until new data are provided for re-writing. It does not matter what data are provided to re-write the blocks. Backup data works as well as Zeroes.Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 7:05 PM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
as far as i can tell it failed that first zero "reformat" but it seems to have taken to the second one (although now that i am thinking about it i am not so sure i didn't just do a "normal" reformat just so i could get time machine running again while i am in the middle of things).
if - say - the zero out worked would you still think i would be safest sending it back for a new one if i can get it under warranty? dumb question i suppose.
but also - is there a way to tell if it has been zeroed out now that it is running a TM backup or is this basically water under the bridge in the event that i am not remembering this for some reason...
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 7:49 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)
I can't think of a way to tell if a disk has been zero'd if you've already written data to it since the zeroing. So far all of the Firewire bridge chipsets I've used (which is not by any means conclusive) fail to pass through the full ATA command set. So running SMART utilities doesn't work.
If you go to Disk Utility, click on the drive (make and model, not the named volume), click on the Info button, what do you see for SMART Status and everything below that? Looks like this:
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Verified Reallocated Sector Count : 000000000000 Power-On Hours : 00000000025A Power Cycles : 0000000000D3 Host Reported UWC : 000000000000 Air Flow Temperature : 00000000001C ECC on the Fly Count : 000000000000 UltraDMA CRC Errors : 000000000000
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 8:36 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)
If your original complaint (that the drive interferes with booting when present) has been resolved, you may just want to continue to use it as a backup and be happy.
If you want a definitive answer, That will take some work. I agree with Christopher Murphy that the SMART Status is generally not available for external Drives. So to see if the SMART Status is "Verified", you would have to pull the drive out of the external enclosure and Install it on a sled in the Mac Pro and read it there.
That may be more trouble than its worth if the original problem is resolved.
His idea of reading the log from the time you were erasing is a good one. Disk Utility has a log you can read while inside Disk Utility, and that may be simpler than digging through System Logs.Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 8:40 PM (in response to Christopher Murphy)
sorry for not answering your earlier post. i sort of get a kind of lumbering gait and my head hurts when i get pointed to console system logs. so i try to ignore them unless something is going nuclear.
anyway, i am not seeing exactly what you post when i click on the info button
Name : G-TECH
Type : Disk
Partition Map Scheme : GUID Partition Table
Disk Identifier : disk7
Media Name : Ext Hard Disk Media
Media Type : Generic
Connection Bus : FireWire
Connection ID : 7895605348381106
Device Tree : IODeviceTree:/PCI0@0/PCIB@1E/FRWR@B/node@1c0d02e013b1b2/sbp-2@c000
Writable : Yes
Ejectable : Yes
Location : External
Total Capacity : 3 TB (3,000,592,982,016 Bytes)
Disk Number : 7
Partition Number : 0
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
i am not clicking on the Time Machine icon below the drive icon when i do this but it looks quite different than yours. perhaps because it is an external?
anyway. thank you...
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 8:45 PM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
OK. I have to admit that sometimes i miss a 1/3 to 2/3 of your info on very technical posts such as this one. not usually but if it gets heavy technical i miss a good deal of it. also, running console log is something i should try to do immediately after having a problem or i should be sure to write down the /time/ it happened is that right? i tend to do a lot very quickly and i am wondering if i have buried any hope of finding anything in console at this point.
anyway, i have not run an option boot yet but if i am following correctly here so far there is nothing necessarily to worry about unless it starts complaining and if i can dig up a receipt and they will take it back i may as well make the effort?
Currently Being ModeratedDec 18, 2012 10:20 PM (in response to hotwheels 22)
Yeah this is one of those things that really frustrates me because there's no good reason why bridge chipsets for Firewire to SATA, and USB to SATA, can't properly handle SMART passthrough. It's just that most don't. And people don't know this or have any reason to know it, until they need it. If you contact G-Tech again you might ask them if the chipset they're using does support SMART, and if so what smartclt switch is needed to get it to work. More info here.
As for getting smartctl, this is a command line program, part of the smartmontools package. It is available for building through MacPorts. So you need XCode installed, and MacPorts and be somewhat comfortable with the command line to compile process (macports does most of the work). Another way around this is to boot something like Gparted Live, or Fedora 17 LiveCD, which will have smartmontools already included and compiled. So while it's still command line, at least you don't have to mess around with compiling. LiveCD's are live, modifiable environments running Linux, you don't have to install anything to your drives at all.
Basically the commands you use for smartctl, if they work, will extract SMART attributes from the drives, and also can perform extended tests. Off hand I'm not thinking of a good reason why zeroing a Firewire drive shouldn't work (not a good idea to do this for SSDs, but it's actually a good thing to do periodically to consumer SATA drives).