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Major problems with Thunderbolt display & MB Air

196317 Views 431 Replies Latest reply: Mar 26, 2014 6:27 PM by benduncalf33 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • t-leish Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 9, 2012 9:53 PM (in response to JohnM101)

    My Macbook Pro hibernate mode is set to 3, and I've never had a problem with the TBD coming up when connecting (like you mentioned in a previous post).  I've only had USB through TBD working.  Not sure the logic on how changing this solves the problem, but here's more info on the PMSET ( Power Management Set)


    OSX: Changing Hibernation Mode

    http://etherealmind.com/osx-hibernate-mode/

     

    pmset(1) OS X Manual Page

    http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ man1/pmset.1.html

  • rfw1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2012 9:47 AM (in response to t-leish)

    I have been having the same issues with key strokes randomly missing.  I have a MacBook Pro Retnia with 2 Apple Thunderbolt displays. The only USB device I have attached is the Apple Keyboard.  I have the same set up at my office with 2 differnet Apple Thunderbolt displays and I have the same issue when I plug in there.

     

    I have tried the PMSET, SMC re-set, and changing the Hibernation mode with smart sleep.  While the SMC re-set did clear things up for a few hours.  Neither the PMSET or the Smart sleep settings did anything.  For now I have to plug my Apple keyboard directly into the MacBook to avoid skipping keys.

     

    Come on Apple,  you need to respond to this issue it's ridiculous that this kind of issue is happening for so long without some kind of response.

  • Akview Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2012 12:16 PM (in response to rfw1)

    I may have replied before, I resolved keyboard issue twice now by replacing the extended keyboard.  First time it was intermitten recognition of keyboard second failure was e and 3 key was dead.  both times was covered under one year on keyboard. Not sure what will be covered next failure. 

     

    Recomend just replacement of extended keyboard.

     

    late 2011 MacBook Pro 15" 2.2GHz i7, 8GB memory, AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB, OS X 10.8.2

    27" Thunderbolt Display

    2 external GoFex Drives one on USB one on thunderblt both plug into display

    Razer Orochi wire USB mouse to laptop in closed clam shell

    extended apple keyboard USB into diplay

     

    all currently working...........knock on wood!   

  • rfw1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 30, 2012 12:29 PM (in response to Akview)

    The new keyboard is a good idea, and I did that.  Purchased a brand new Apple extended keyboard, before I posted up my message.  FYI found the best price using FreePriceAlerts web app.

     

    The New keyboard unfortunately did not fix the issue.

  • MyFaithfulLabAssistantBeaker Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2013 2:58 AM (in response to JohnM101)

    Multiple problems with TB display:

    [LIST=1]

    [*] MBP/Tbolt display system won't wake from sleep from Tbolt-connected keyboard or mouse press

    [*] MBP/Tbolt display system won't transfer Tbolt-connected keypress or mouse movement to MBP

    [*] MBP/Tbolt display system won't pass ethernet through to MBP from cable plugged into Tbolt

    [/LIST]

     

    I have Firmware Version: 22.2.

     

    I think most of the reports can be traced to TB display hardware. 

     

    Anyone know if there is more than one version of the logic board (which contains the USB & ethernet components) in use?  Is there a specific component failure that is recurring?  Is this a mechanical (thermal?) problem (bad trace, bad solder joint)?  When folks get their TB dispply fixed are the techs putting in the same version board or a different one?  Local Apple support won't say but I am deeply suspicious.

     

    European user

  • Karl Kaufmann Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 16, 2013 8:06 PM (in response to rfw1)

    Yes,

    Like previous posters, I'm having an issue with my TB display as well--when redocking the MBP, the keyboard often will not work (like now). The Magic Trackpad (via Bluetooth), is fine. Have done SMC/PRAM reset, still the issue. Aside from a system reset, the issue doesn't resolve.

     

    Also, often when I undock, and open the MBP to do work on the road, the display will only show gibberish, requiring a restart.

     

    I checked, all software (Montain Lion), as well as firmware is updated.

     

    Any thoughts?

  • MyFaithfulLabAssistantBeaker Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I wish I had some good news. Apple is getting ready to announce a new Thunderbolt display.  Suspected to be a thin display, I anticipate that it will have a new T-bolt controller card that fixes the problems described in this and other threads. I doubt that Apple will ever acknowledge that Thunderbolt was flawed but this is not, I think, likely. 

     

    I can attest to the keyboard problem and, if you were using a USB mouse,a mouse problem as well.  Apparently attaching the T-bolt cable to the Mac does not reliably scan the USB for devices.

     

    The whole point of T-bolt is to have one connector do everything so that the MacBook becomes a black box without a lot of connecting of devices.  Thunderbolt fails on this score.

     

    Like other Apple product lines, version 1 of anything is a bad choice.

     

    I think that someone clever could invent a 'reset' button for the Thunderbolt display. This would be a USB device with a pushbotton that would reset the bus and cause the host to scan the bus again and thus find the physically connected but not yet recognized devices.  It would be a kluge, of course, but I bet we could sell one for every existing display.

     

    Belkin and others are now offering Thunderbolt hubs that allow connection of an simple (non-Apple) display and support USB and ethernet connections.  These are a bit pricey now but will surely become cheaper with time. Unless you are a design fanatic, you can easily save a bundle by buying one of these and a cheaper display.  Not as clean looking on your desk but you can use the savings to buy the desk!

     

    Sorry...

  • rpg51 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have had similar problems and after butting my head against numerous failed efforts to correct the problem my conclusion is that there is a design defect.  It is disgraceful that Apple does not either fix it or own up to it and do the right thing.  This is a VERY expensive monitor.  Leaves a bad taste in my mouth for sure. I'll probably upgrade when the new TBD is released.

     

    My work around is to shut my Air down before I connect to my TBD and shut it down before I disconnect.  When I do this everything works.  It is a pain in the butt but fortunately the boot time on my Air is very short so I can live with it.

  • tonym20 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2013 4:04 AM (in response to rpg51)

    I had the same problem with my MBP

     

    You need to get a powered USB hub and connect it to your Mac monitor and all peripherals to the hub.  Works like a charm and the hubs cost around $10

     

    Try it out

     

    Tony

  • Erik Johnson3 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2013 9:05 AM (in response to rpg51)

    @rpg51 -- As my many notes in this forum demonstrate, I have had this very issue, and have also subscribed to a solution that many of us have discovered: attach a powered USB hub to the back of the Thunderbolt display, and hang all of your high-current peripherals off of it.  I managed to keep my USB keyboard and headphones attached to the display, while attaching USB drives (etc.) to the powered hub.  This completely solved the problem.

     

    The pathology of the problem:  To make a very long story short, Apple appears to have designed the USB hub contained within the Thunderbolt display to the minimum required current handling as specified in the USB 2.0 specification -- which is 500mA.  Other manufacturers may (or may not) build their hubs to allow for more generous power handling.   The root cause of the problem you are having is due to an over-current condition within the Thunderbolt display -- caused by plugging in enough devices that you exceed the 500mA draw limitation of the display.  The core problem is that either the Thunderbolt display, or downstream peripherals (over Thunderbolt) appear to be affected by the over-current condition as it is poorly handled by the display. 

     

    Is it performing as designed if power is constrained to the 500mA design limit?  Yes.  Which is why Apple's response has been poor, at best, to this issue.  If Apple were to simply put some better over-current exception handling code in the Thunderbolt display, this issue would go away completely.  But it appears that they are living by their "assertion" that the USB 2.0 specification reigns.  Interestingly, other manufacturers have different ways of handling over-current conditions, too.  For instance, an old D-Link powered USB hub that I used a couple of years back demonstrated a similar behavior -- it simply powered ALL of the ports off, while leaving all of the condition lights intact.  So, some of your frustration should be also directed at the USB standards developers who (mistakenly) felt that 500mA was sufficient current handling for USB when we all enjoy stacking so many peripherals off the back of our devices.

     

    In summary, and to the point of previous posters: put a powered USB hub off the back of your TB display and you should see immediate relief.  A standard USB hub will only exacerbate the problem.

     

    Hope this helps.

  • ttsang5 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 17, 2013 9:09 AM (in response to bazaarone)

    Dear All,

     

    I've found 100% solution as well as the reason for such fruproblem,

     

    The reason was the motherboard on MBA, I am an Apple Joint Venture member and I gave them the video i took during the problem as well as giving them my MBA, they did a check and confirm that its relate to the Logic Board, and therefore they order a new one from Singapore office. The new Logic Board means new USB, Thunderbolt, new RAM, everything is new except the SSD (Flash).

    This sort the problem out.

  • Phips Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Erik Johnson3 wrote:

     

    The pathology of the problem:  To make a very long story short, Apple appears to have designed the USB hub contained within the Thunderbolt display to the minimum required current handling as specified in the USB 2.0 specification -- which is 500mA.

     

    [snip]

     

    In summary, and to the point of previous posters: put a powered USB hub off the back of your TB display and you should see immediate relief.  A standard USB hub will only exacerbate the problem.

     

    Hope this helps.

     

    Superb summary Erik, thanks for taking the time to pen it.

  • plochner Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 18, 2013 10:37 AM (in response to Phips)

    We have a user with a brand new MB Air and a brand new Thunderbolt display that is having this problem with the USB ports. Our solution so far has been to temporarily unplug the TB display's power cord, and plug it back in. The USB ports function fine after that for a few days. I am going to give the powered USB hub solution a try as well.

  • MyFaithfulLabAssistantBeaker Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2013 1:34 AM (in response to plochner)

    I would be interested in comments regarding simultaneous loss of the ethernet connection.  My thunderbolt display has no ethernet connectivity despite repeated attempts to restart.  Does failure to recognize the USB devices connected to it also result in failure of the wired ethernet connection to be passed along the Thunderbolt cable to the MacBook?

  • t-leish Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    MyFaithfulLabAssistantBeaker wrote:

     

    I would be interested in comments regarding simultaneous loss of the ethernet connection.  My thunderbolt display has no ethernet connectivity despite repeated attempts to restart.  Does failure to recognize the USB devices connected to it also result in failure of the wired ethernet connection to be passed along the Thunderbolt cable to the MacBook?

     

     

    I have a MBP and TB purchased April 2012.  The only 2 items I had connected to my TB were 1 ethernet cable and 1 Apple USB keyboard, but both would stop working on a weekly basis. 

     

    After discovering the powered USB hub workaround in June 2012, I have never had a single problem with either, not even once.

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