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  • 6,120. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    ixdnl Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Got my Macbook back and have never been so happy as to see the letters LSN before. Despite the claims that Samsumg screens don't have the same IR issue, I'm still wary it may pop up down the line. Only time will tell, I guess.

  • 6,121. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Attilas Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    A recall on LG panel is not good for company image. Much less costy to simply replace panel for unsatisfied customers. Also, their might be a lot of good working LG panel out there that we simply don't get feedback in this thread.

     

    Just too bad Apple doesn't seems to have sent instructions to Apple Stores to accept LG replacement more easily.

  • 6,122. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    millerrh512 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Attilas wrote:

     

    A recall on LG panel is not good for company image. Much less costy to simply replace panel for unsatisfied customers. Also, their might be a lot of good working LG panel out there that we simply don't get feedback in this thread.

     

    Just too bad Apple doesn't seems to have sent instructions to Apple Stores to accept LG replacement more easily.

    This is a good point.  A "silent" recall would be just as good at fixing the problem.  As soon as someone complains about the issue, a replacement is issued without hassle.  Seems like most people are getting replacements, but some are dealing with some difficulties.

     

    What bothers me about this is the number of LG displays still being shippped with new rMBPs.  You'd think they would have fixed this by now or at the very least stopped shipping known bad panels.  Seems like that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be the "silent" recall making it easy to replace the screens.  That Step 1 hasn't happened yet is astonishing. 

     

    I purchased one of these and just ended up returning it deciding to wait for Haswell instead.  Then (I figure) production issues should be ironed out and I'll have a faster machine.  But I wonder now.  This screen issue is processor independent and something they need to fix by itself.

  • 6,123. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Attilas Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    millerrh512 wrote:

     

    This is a good point.  A "silent" recall would be just as good at fixing the problem.  As soon as someone complains about the issue, a replacement is issued without hassle.  Seems like most people are getting replacements, but some are dealing with some difficulties.

     

    What bothers me about this is the number of LG displays still being shippped with new rMBPs.  You'd think they would have fixed this by now or at the very least stopped shipping known bad panels.  Seems like that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be the "silent" recall making it easy to replace the screens.  That Step 1 hasn't happened yet is astonishing. 

     

    I purchased one of these and just ended up returning it deciding to wait for Haswell instead.  Then (I figure) production issues should be ironed out and I'll have a faster machine.  But I wonder now.  This screen issue is processor independent and something they need to fix by itself.

     

    I seriously doupt ALL LG screen do burn in after time. Im comvince there is a lot of happy LG customer that doesn't experience burn in and those peoples are not reading/replying on this thread. There is evidence that LG screen have serious burnin problem compared to Samsung, but obviously not enought to make Apple stop feeding LG in the market. That make me think there is good LG panel out there.

     

    Remember that for Apple, replacing a screen cost hours, shipping, logistics and parts. You can't just send out LG panel out there unless a certain known percentage of futur comeback. They are aware of the return rate LG screen and obviously it must be acceptable for them cost wise.

     

    On the other side, I see much more people getting LG replaced with a Samsung screen recently. That is a logic way to correct the problem without screwing LG and Apple reputation. But again, we simply don't really know the percentage of "will fail" LG screen. But it logicaly can't be 100%.

     

    People here just want to hear "Hey we got it undercontrol and will get you a corrected rMBP that you deserve as a customer". We wont hear it from Apple, but we will feel it from the communities...

  • 6,124. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Dan Christal Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I had been dealing with image retention for months and finally felt it got to the point where I should bring my laptop into an Apple store. The Genius verified the image retention on a default gray background and set me up for a replacement - no checkard board test, no hassle. Screen was replaced with Samsung.

  • 6,125. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Xandris Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)

    I have a story to add to this quite lengthy thread.  I bought my rMBP in the beginning of October at MicroCenter in St Luis Park, MN.  I have been nothing but happy with the computer, as it has been the best computer I have owned...including a great many Apple laptops.  I occasionally surf around the threads trying to help people with problems when I can, or when I am bored, so I was well aware of this issue, and considered myself lucky that despite having an LG equipped machine, I did not have any issues with the IR so many others have had.  That is, until Christmas day. 

     

    I noticed after minimizing my Chrome window that I had open for awhile, that there appeared to be a line on the left side of the screen.  At first I thought it was a line of pixels on the display, but then I changed the background to a light, solid color, and realized it was the remnants of my browser window.  It was so prominent that I could read the text from the window that I had minimized.  I immediately remembered this thread and began reading it again.  What happens next in this is something that has NEVER happened to me in all my years of having thousands upon thousands of dollars of Apple products.

     

    After realizing that I was facing this IR problem in this thread, I set up an appointment for the Genius Bar at the Mall of America.  The next day I arrived and shortly after was greeted by the Genius.  I explained the issue.  He gave no indication that he was familiar with the issue, and proceeded to run standard tests.  Once those passed, he ran the IR/Burn In test that it seems Apple has created SPECIFICALLY for this issue.  Most everyone here already knows, the test is garbage, and seems to be used as a way to persuade customers to NOT demand that their machines be fixed.  Needless to say, my computer "passed" the test, and therefore, nothing could be done.  Uhhhhh, excuse me?  I asked if I could show him on my desktop, since the IR problem only takes a few mins to recreate, and he said it didnt matter, because if it passed THEIR test, then they couldnt do anything about it.  I explained that this was unacceptable for a machine that is being marketed and sold as having an amazing display, and this problem, is most certainly making it anything BUT amazing.  Then he gave me the line that the IPS display commonly has this characteristic and should be expected.  I rebutted with the fact that if it was indeed the case that this was a characteristic of the technology, then it should have been present when I took the computer out of the box, NOT just showing up two months later.  He said he would get a manager and see if there was anything they could do.

     

    The manager showed up a few mins later, and after explaining to her...I get the exact same run around... Except she added that...Well, you have a full year warranty, and if it gets worse, you can keep bringing it back and we can keep testing it...Until it fails the test, there is nothing we can do...  I was absolutely dumbstruck.  In ALL the years of having Apple products, I have never felt so dissatisfied with a service issue.  I honestly felt like I was in the Windows Store across the hall from the Apple Store in the MoA.  I was angry.  I did not show it much, but I told the manager that I was EXTREMELY unhappy, and that this response was unacceptable.  I packed my computer up and left.

     

    When I arrived home, I setup an AppleCare support ticket and called the next day.  In addition, I sent an email to Tim Cook, explaining all of what had transpired, and how dissatisfied I was.  When I made my call the AppleCare, I explained my situation to the tech and AGAIN, I was given the same lines of BS that the previous two people had already told me at the Apple Store.  I asked for a supervisor.  I went through very similar circumstances with the supervisor, and emailed her pictures of my problems that I had taken.  She saw the issue, but insisted on trying to troubleshoot the problem with me, emailing me back the Apple page on preventing IP on displays.  I was quite clear that I wanted to have the LCD replaced, and that I wanted to see if I could specifically choose the SAMSUNG panel as the replacement part.  I gave her the part number for the part, and when she looked up replacements for my LCD, she said that the 661-7171 part was the ONLY part listed as the replacement.  She said she was going to do some research and find out if my local store had the part in stock....blah blah blah... and that she would be calling me back before she left for the day. 

     

    Several hours later, I got a call from the store manager of the Apple Store at MoA.  He listened to my story yet again...and yet again, repeated the same song and dance about the IPS having IP...and if it doesnt fail the test they cant replace it... I again told him the only way to make me happy was to replace the display.  He finally agreed, remarking that they were making a ONE TIME EXCEPTION and replacing my screen... He transferred me to a Genius Administrator, who told me to bring my computer in, the part was in stock, and that they would get it fixed in 24-48 hours.  I dropped it off Thursday night, and at 1pm Friday, they called and said it was done.  I indeed got the Samsung display, and everything seems to be perfectly functioning. 

     

    HERE are my issues and thoughts on this process. 

     

    First, the "test" that they run for IR, at least in my case, is complete BS.  The checkerboard pattern is left on the display for 4 mins, then the screen goes to a black screen...and theres no retention... OF COURSE not, its a black screen, you arent going to see retention of dark elements on a dark background.  ALSO, I dont use a black background to begin with, so your using THAT as a standard is completely IRRELLEVANT.  I use a picture for my background....and it the IR is CLEARLY visible in THAT situation...the situation in which I actually USE my computer.  Not letting a customer showing you WHAT the problem is in the manner in which they normally use a computer is utter and complete NONSENSE. 

     

    Second, all of the people I talked to CLEARLY know that this is an issue.  They ALL gave the same song and dance about the IPS display having this typical characteristic.  Well, I have had 4 iPhones, and I know for certain the last 3 I have had have IPS screens, the 2 iPads I have, also have IPS screens, and NONE of those exhibit the issue.  Also, it seems to be obvious that the SAMSUNG panels arent having the issue, especially if Apple is ONLY replacing the panels with the SAMSUNG specific part.  This would seem to indicate that they know that the LG panels have issues with IR.

     

    Last...I got the problem fixed.  But it was far more difficult than it should have been.  I have been selling people on Apple products and SERVICE for years.  I have gotten people to switch from Windows to Macs BECAUSE the service is so much better... This was a terrible example of how NOT to treat a customer.  I have NEVER had this much trouble with an Apple product in my life.  I hope nobody has to deal with a warrantied product in this way again.  This should be clear- This computer is being marketed and sold as having an amazing, revolutionary display technology.  If the customer is not getting said amazing, and revolutionary experience, you shouldnt make them jump through hoops to get the problem fixed.  The service is ONE of the reasons that people pay a premium for Apple products.  Not only do we expect BETTER products, but we expect to be taken care of if our iStuff has issues.  Like I said, overall, I DID get taken care of... It just shouldnt have been so difficult to have gotten to that point.  Dont give up, be persistent, and you will get the problems solved...hopefully with a SAMSUNG screen...

  • 6,126. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Squilly827 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    Glad it worked out for you, and thanks for the long... long, reply.  It's odd that they're replacing all the screens with a Samsung display, for customers that demand a replacement.  Not once, have I seen anyone post about getting an LG replacement screen.

  • 6,127. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    TeddyEdward666 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I got my rMBP in September. I was in panic mode because of the burn in issue I was reading about. Mine is an upgraded model - more ram, faster cpu etc and I did the check to see that yes, indeed, I do have the LG screen. I was not happy but knew I had warranty so would just let it play out.

    I use it as my main computer and its on everyday.

    Readnig this thread I have seen a fair few comments from people such as this:

     

    " seriously doupt ALL LG screen do burn in after time. Im comvince there is a lot of happy LG customer that doesn't experience burn in and those peoples are not reading/replying on this thread. There is evidence that LG screen have serious burnin problem compared to Samsung, but obviously not enought to make Apple stop feeding LG in the market. That make me think there is good LG panel out there."

     

    I felt I may as well get in on this discussion and say that after 3 months of daily use and an awareness of the problem (performing the checkerboard test every now and then) I still see no sign of the burn in.

    If it does happen across the whole LG range it certainly hasnt happened to me yet...I just had a look in the OS and can't find anywhere it tells me total run time...if anyone knows and this info helps let me know and I can post it.

    Anyway, that is all.

  • 6,128. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    morissej Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Consider yourself very lucky. I have the same profile as you (apple fan) and had my screen deteriorate. They refused to change it. Then it got very bad. They told me it was my fault. I had to pay 1200 euros to get it fixed!!!! I am no apple fan anymore and will switch to other products whenever I can. Apple has become just another IT company. Except they are billing you 50% more than others. Not acceptable to me. My theory is that they hare going mass markets which means selling more products more often. As a result they are losing their grip on production and quality. It is not a surprise to me that they are opening a plant in the US. Since they have more and more quality issues all over the place (iphone4, maps, ibook hard rive, etc) they need to react very quickly or they will go down real fast. I find it amazing that they are failing where Tim Cook was supposed to have made the difference: the logistic chain. A far as I am concerned this is too late. I am not a faithful customer anymore.

     

    Ps: the best is that they have also become very arrogant. When I pointed to this thread as evidence that there was a problem, the applecare guys told me that these were not serious people nor real comments.... Tells you a lot about where these guys are.

  • 6,129. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    andiruleu Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I don't understand why they would say its your fault. How did they determine that its your fault?

     

    Also, I did see slight IR on my screen. I do have an upgraded model of 15". But when I went in for a checkup at the Genius Bar, it doesn't show. They also let me test how I wanted to test it (with gray background and checkerboard), nothing showed. So now i've tested a few times with daily use, and still nothing. So what did I do? I just changed my wallpaper to whatever I felt like, and just use my laptop as if I would normally use it. I guess I'll come back again if I see anything serious, but for now, its nothing major nor am I going to start looking for the issue again.

  • 6,130. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Tonythetiger24 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Week 47 LG no problem at all.

  • 6,131. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    TeddyEdward666 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I am sorry to hear of your issues. Sounds like you should try calling in to a different shop.

    My first pc was an apple 2plus. Since then I have been on 286's through to 6 core intels running on windows.

    I avoided apple everything. I am not sure why - I think just the dumbing down of the software.

    Besides the usual trolling my main use of computers has been for video / audio work.

    I have both Intel and AMD cpu's (high spec) and really don't notice the difference. There are a lot of people out there that seem to.

    I used to own (now other family memers have them because I gave them away) several android devices - tablets, phones etc.

    I saw the difference between the iOS devices I had played with and these android devices to be the same as the intel / amd debate. If you have too much time on your hands or other issues effecting your happiness then maybe directing some of that passion towards that would shift the focus away from the real problems in life.

    Android lets you do a lot more like direct NZB d/l'ing, torrenting etc but once I used a friends iPad for a few days I was actually shocked by the quality difference in the apps. Particularly the audio production software.

    Now I am embarrassed to admit but I own their phone and their ipad. I went to an apple laptop this year because I was sick of what I found to be poor build quality in the other main laptop makers out there. The bootcamp stability means my work specific applications can still be run with no bother and as far as no more NZB on the iPad - well I carry my laptop whenever I go away for work anyway.

    I do see a decline in the love of Apple - one hopes they will react to this and start to innovate again and tighten their QAQC process.

    Back to your issue, be polite, intelligent and firm. Apple staff are not gods. They are uni students and nothing more than glorified sales assistants. A stupid blue shirt don't mean s&^t to me. Don't let them tell you where the problem started.

  • 6,132. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    BarrettF77 Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    I would have thought apple would have fixed this issue by now. Between this matter, OSX issues, and the general quality apple has in resolving issues I've switched to advising against buying their hardware.  I just recently dumped some apple product for a refund after Christmas.  Asked why I was returning it and told the staff I am not into buying over priced hardware that has poor support as apple now does.  They deceive customers in never acknowledging fault, use poor screen vendors as seen here, and I'm done with going to the idiot bar.  

  • 6,133. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    shayster98 Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    shayster98 wrote:

     

    Sep 11, 2012 5:10 PM (in response to mittense)

    shayster98 wrote:

     

    [..]

     

    An update on my ghosting problems: my 2.7 GHz/16 GB/256 GB BTO (Week 35) with an LG display's IR has increased minimally. Just to recap, at first it had NONE, and then after a week and a half developed extremely faint image persistence, which didn't bother me because I couldn't even take a picture of it. It really was that faint. It only showed up because I hid the Dock and saw a trace of it.

     

    Also, I NEVER use the checkerboard. Yes, when I test for IR, I use the darkest grey background in the wallpaper options. Anyway, now, after two and a half weeks it's still not noticeable with normal use, but is more distinct when on a grey background; I use Word and Photoshop frequently, and the toolbars and most of the UI stays static.

     

    [..]

     

    Oct 11, 2012 6:45 PM (in response to Danny Swish)

    [..]

     

    When I was reading about this part number "661-7171" that seems to be confirmed as a Samsung screen, I got pretty excited, as I could finally think about getting an IR-free display in a few months.

     

    But now, hearing about the warm whites of new builds of Samsung displays, I'm reluctant to give up my current screen with great colors, even if it does have image persistence.

     

     

    I remember saying this a while ago; now the ghosting has gotten much worse to the point where it's ridiculous. Even websites reveal themselves on the default Galaxy wallpaper. Photoshop, Word, anything. It's terrible. I used to think I had a good LG screen; but now I'd really like a Samsung.

     

    I was thinking about why Samsung panels have been reported to be warm for the last month or so but very blue for the first batch of laptops that came in around the beginnings of the thread, and I think it's because of this:

     

    Most laptops that had Samsung screens during the beginnings of this thread came shipped from the factory with that display; meaning they were calibrated (I'm guessing individually?) to make sure they were correct.

    However, most of the Samsungs that people have received recently have been replacements, and those laptops retain the factory calibrations for their previous screen. I'm sure that if those screens were recalibrated, the yellow tint would be remedied (not the "muras" and bleeding and other issues, however )

     

    This makes me feel better about eventually replacing this LG display (with great colors), and requesting that #661-7171 part number. However, I just don't like the idea of my laptop being opened up and having potential damage to the innards, as well as cosmetic damage such as scratches.

     

    I'd also prefer a laptop with a Samsung display that was shipped with that screen in the first place, because it would be probably calibrated more accurately than I could do.

     

    [..]

     

    Well, I went out and did it. I'm finally on that winter break I've been talking about here since September where I could finally replace my screen. Got a Samsung, with that 661-7171 part number.

     

    It seems that I was wrong about one thing and right about the other.

     

    There was no cosmetic damage to the laptop, which is impressive. As far as I can tell, when benchmarking it it's also running just as nicely as it was before I sent it in for repair.

     

    The thing I was RIGHT about was, that, well, the colors are, frankly, nasty. They looked fine in the store, but when I compared it to my Mid 2010 27" iMac at home they were more washed out and yellow.

     

    The old LG screen I had was MORE vibrant and looked way nicer than that iMac's display. It was whiter than all our other computers (that iMac, 13" MBP, 13" MB, 2007 15" MBP, ThinkPad). It looked PERFECT apart from the IR.

     

    When asked about if they calibrate the screen, the guy at the "Genius" Bar told me the factory calibration for the old screen will SUFFICE FOR THE NEW ONE. !??!?!! I don't even think he was being difficult, but just that he didn't know any better.

     

    I told him that even the SAME screen, for an optimal color gamut, needs to be calibrated at LEAST once a year. He didn't have anything to say to that.

     

    Should I waste my money on a Spyder4 Express? Will that restore the amazing contrast and color depth that LG screen had? Or will it make the colors too washed out and drab? I really want that pure white the LG screen had also. :/

  • 6,134. Re: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
    Ocean 17 Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)

    Shayster, the fact that the old screen had more vibrant colors doesn't mean it was better calibrated.

     

    You can mess up colors in a lot of ways.The fact that the LG screen (about which I heard bad things) was more vibrant was just a matter of factory settings, not of precision.

     

    If you do color critical work or simply want to see true colors you need to calibrate the display anyway.

     

    I just bought my MBP 2.6/512/16 and and external monitor. I bought the i1 Display Pro as a measurement too, and nec software to calibrate the nec perfectly. I will buy Basiccolor 5 to get the best out of my MBP.

     

    The X-Rite i1 Display Pro is not only the best you can buy at the moment, it is not expensive. And it can deal with wide gamut displays (even though I think the retina screen is not wide gamut).

     

    The i1 Display Pro comes with its own software and will give you a good calibration.

     

    For high end results, choose the BasicColor 5 software.

     

    B&H has currently a special on the Display Pro ($200 after $50 mail-in rebate). BasicColor will cost $ 129.00.

     

    I personally wouldn't touch Spyder Express - but I'm a photographer and having perfect color is vital to me.

     

    Your needs might be different, and lesser solution might just work fine.

     

    I still don't recommend buying any "express" version. The i1 Display has gotten rave review and trumps results gotten by the i1 Pro (which costs $ 1500 - but it also profiles printers).