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Java and Ipad

61102 Views 98 Replies Latest reply: Jul 20, 2013 6:20 AM by HarryKeller RSS
  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 10:40 AM (in response to VarietyIsBetter)

    What did you do in IT for 30 years?

     

    Given that there are millions of websites, some of which will never be updated, there will always be some outdated technology in use. There are still sites using Real Audio. There are still people using OS2. Still people using the Commodore Amiga. But you aren't going to design a new product and be sure to include compatibility with any of them.

     

    "Hundreds" of websites are a drop in the bucket. Mr. Jobs said at the release of the iPhone it would not use Java since it was outdated technology. There has never been much of a protest over this decision (Flash is a different story). Java is a security nightmare which I'm sure factored into the decision not to support it.

     

    As far as your statement regarding Apple products it is so far off base I won't take the time to individually address it except to say you can even run Windows and Linux on Macs.

     

    Even Adobe has ceased work on mobile Flash. And if your iPad is a paperweight that is because of how you use it. Many other people and industries are using it for work every day including the armed services, airlines, etc. You just make yourself look silly with this type of statement.

  • Chet1234567890 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 6:25 PM (in response to deggie)

    I can't help but wonder why when someone simply states their dislike of an apple product's performance, or lack of, it always turns into a personal argument with someone always holding up their jobs marquis and reasserting their belief in the Mac system.

     

    All we're missing here is a "Green" label and then it would be ultimately cool to be a so called Mac.

     

    I came here for help and have received nothing but personal opinions on how outdated the software I need to run on this product is. I didn't choose which software was required, I'm the consumer and I just want the $700 device I bought to do what I was lead to believe it would.

     

    Please save your Mac preaching for your buddies at the coffee shop.

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 6:30 PM (in response to Chet1234567890)

    It has been well known that iDevices do not have Java. It was well announced prior to the release of the first iPhone. It was covered in an interview with Mr. Jobs prior to the release who detailed why it would not have Java.

     

    There is no workaround.

     

    Who "lead you to believe" that it would work with Java?

     

    As a veteran consultant you didn't do your research prior to your purchase?

     

    Sell your iPad and buy a tablet that has Java if you need it to do your work.Make sure you reasearch them to be sure it will work before making your purchase.

     

    Problem solved.

  • VarietyIsBetter Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 6:30 PM (in response to deggie)

    I have worked in many aspects of business applications through the years.

     

    I guess I will just be one of the minority that has come to enjoy many 'obsolete' websites that have provided me satisfaction for over a decade. Pogo.com is a major disappointment to lose. Fortunately I still have my laptop which hasn't dictated what I can or cannot access on the Internet.

     

    I do not wish to use my iPad for business purposes. I do enough business computing at work. However, I have worked for agricultural and food industries all my life and we do not have the margins to invest in the development costs for custom creation of apps. It is far more cost effective to have applications that we deploy to desktops, laptops and mobile devices unchanged. And the devices we deploy in plants and the field must be more rugged than an iPad. In fact, the first time I have been anywhere that required support of any Apple product is just recently as our executives are enamored with getting company email on their iPhone.

     

    Lastly, I am not that off base with the Apple culture and marketing approach. Since it is just my opinion vs. yours, I'll leave you with this quote from CBS news from an article about developing your own app.

    " Apple keeps about one-third of the price, so you'll get about $2 per sale if your application sells for $2.99."

    As I said before, Apple has to either write it or get their cut or it won't exist.

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 6:38 PM (in response to VarietyIsBetter)

    But you said it is just a toy. And apparently that is all you wanted it for, to be a toy.

     

    It isn't my opinion, Mr. Jobs made it very clear why Java would not be on iDevices. If you need Java then you buy one that has Java. To buy an iPad now and expect it to have Java and mobile Flash (which Adobe has dropped) is just illogical.

     

    Apple takes a 30% administrative fee on all apps for the cost of maintaining the servers, the staff to clear the apps and get them on the server, setting up the purchase methods, and keeping an accounting of apps sold, etc. For probably the majority of app writers it would cost them far more to set up all of these administrative services themselves. This was well known and laid out to developers when Apple allowed 3rd party apps (which they originally were not going to do) and their has been no hue and cry about the fee.

     

    You can't run Java, you won't ever be able to, you don't like Apple. So sell your device (you will get a good price for it) and buy an Android Tablet or a Surface.

  • davidfromwinfield Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 6:41 PM (in response to Ineophyte)

    Java unfortunately isn't supported on the iOS platform. I hope this helps.

  • VarietyIsBetter Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 7:17 PM (in response to deggie)

    I get your point loud and clear and at this point I would love to get a different device. Clearly you don't get the concept of a wife buying a huge Christmas/anniversary present. She would be in tears if I made such a suggestion. And why would I know what decisions the all knowing Jobs made? I have not bought an Apple anything since 1985. Don't bother replying as I won't bother you again unless I have trouble downloading the latest Taylor Swift video. Clearly this is what this product is suited for.

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
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    Jan 1, 2013 7:21 PM (in response to VarietyIsBetter)

    LOL, the Standord football team has their playbooks on iPads. FAA regional managers monitor area flight activity on iPads. And without using Java.

     

    So if you are right-handed and your wife bought you left-handed golf clubs you would keep them?

  • VarietyIsBetter Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 8:00 PM (in response to deggie)

    Really? The quarterback is holding an iPad during his plays? That is impressive! My guys are riding fork lifts 12 hours each shift or riding a detasseler in the field or forgetting their rugged PC in a wash down area in the plant exposed to 12 hours of high pressure water with sterilization chemicals. I guess you got me with dudes on the sideline and people in towers.

     

    And the difference between left and right? You are trying to insult my wife now? How does that compare to all the different technologies out there? She had no reason to know that Apple declined supporting customer's needs.

     

    Are you actually customer support or just some radical Apple fanatic?

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2013 8:13 PM (in response to VarietyIsBetter)

    Neither.

  • HarryKeller Calculating status...
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    Jan 2, 2013 8:18 AM (in response to deggie)

    I can see no reason for iOS not supporting Java except for spite.  Android also does not because Google was being sued by Sun (now Oracle).  The initial Surface also does not support Java, but the more advanced Surface will.

     

    What is the alternative for developers who'd like to have a platform-agnostic serious application?  HTML5 is just too weak for serious applications.  Maintaining an 20,000-line JavaScript program would be a complete nightmare -- essentially impossible.  Putting all of the work on the server would result in delays for the user that are unacceptable these days.

     

    Java's power is its weakness because such a potent language can have security holes.  The Sun (now Oracle) have done a great job of keeping Java up-to-date with new features and with maintaining security.  The rumor mill (stimulated no doubt by Apple et al.) keeps throwing mud at Java.  Java opened up the Internet for developers and is keeping it open for the serious developer.  Go ahead and write your tiny apps and games in HTML5 or write platform-specific apps so that you quadruple your development and maintenance costs.  Some have money to burn, I guess.  Realize that you're crushing the small but highly professional developer in your rush to kill Java.

  • Chet1234567890 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 12:39 PM (in response to deggie)

    It has been well known ... Is that anything like "common knowledge" if so you're telling us a lot about your fact finding and quoting procedure.

     

    And how the heck do YOU come up with "problem solved", were you the one requesting assistance? Are you employed by apple? No, you're just someone who believes a large number of posts on a site makes them an expert.

     

    If you can't help someone and am just looking for an argument, take it elsewhere.

     

    Oh and what I meant by lead to believe was the person at Best Buy standing at an apple desk and demonstrating how wonderful apples are told me their would be no problem with running ANY program I run on my laptop.

     

    Should I as a consumer be forced to "research" the competence of every person representing a product and claiming to be a professional?

     

    Better yet, don't answer because I've gotten my fill of your redderick for the day.

     

    Once again, a simple request for assistance and the gates get thrown open wide for fanboys to carry on.

  • deggie Level 8 Level 8 (44,840 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 12:49 PM (in response to Chet1234567890)

    Yep, pretty much common knowledge and not hard to find out at all.

     

    Was the person standing at the Apple Desk wearing a shirt with the Apple logo or a Best Buy shirt? Probably the latter because the Apple personnel know better than saying it would run any app that could run on the laptop. But imagine, a Best Buy salesperson saying what you want to hear in order to make a sale.

     

    So what would you propose as your solution. You can rule out Apple putting Java on iOS, that is not going to happen ever.

     

    You have no idea who I am or what skill level I have in anything.

  • lkrupp Level 4 Level 4 (3,085 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 5:05 PM (in response to deggie)

    http://java.com/en/download/faq/java_mobile.xml

     

    Point is Java isn't supported on any of the popular mobile operating systems. I have no idea whether it is supported by Windows RT on their tablets but I think not according to several techie web sites. Tablets and smartphones are not desktop or laptop devices and they don't run Java applets. So arguing about it or trading barbs doesn't change anything.

  • HarryKeller Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 9:01 PM (in response to lkrupp)

    Don't know about others or to whom your remarks are directed, but do know that my comments are directed against those companies (Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Oracle -- the last one due to its silly lawsuits) who quarrel and cause the rest of world headaches.  They could all just agree in a minute if they weren't so thick-headed.  There's no technical barrier to Java on tablets.  Oracle has already demonstrated it.

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