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What are your thoughts on the New iTunes 11?

112915 Views 1,597 Replies Latest reply: Mar 19, 2014 11:37 AM by Mark Block RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • falhawk Calculating status...
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    Jan 20, 2013 2:46 AM (in response to Porf)

    Then there's the album covers issue. Don't get me started. Fail.

     

    Are they sorting this out - a fundamental and stupid flaw.

  • Mark Block Level 2 Level 2 (270 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 5:56 PM (in response to BopCat)

    BopCat wrote:


    ... Cover View? Never used it. Eye candy for some I supposed, it just got in my way. Get rid of it. Check. ... I understand iTunes 11 has lost functionality fundamentally important to some users. I hope those are added in updates, perhaps with improvements. But Cover Flow? Seriously?

     

     

    Seriously. Your post was mostly thoughtful, but the gratuitous nonsense you wrote about Cover Flow is not.

     

    Which was it, that you never used it or that it got in your way? Can't be both. I assume you didn't use it so it didn't really get in your way. If you had used it, you might have realized that it wasn't just eye candy. It adds significantly to my ability to find music went sorting. The new Songs view lacks covers to identify the albums at a glance, so I find it slower and harder on the eye/brain. The Albums View has extremely limited sorting ability.

     

    Apple has not solved the most fundamental user interface problem: coming up with a decent default view that works for most people almost all the time. As it is, we're forced to frequently switch between views.

     

    I have iTunes 11 on my laptop and iTunes 10 on my Mac Mini (main music system). I've been using both daily for a month. I certainly don't think 10 seems dated. In fact, just the opposite. It's a relief to use 10.

     

    However, I like 11's Expanded View of albums very much. My fondest wish is for Apple to restore the Cover Flow view on top of the Songs, but with one enhancement: a double click on the album cover in Cover Flow would bring up the Expanded View for playing it. That would be the One View to rule them all.

  • robcar Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2013 6:01 PM (in response to Mark Block)

    I never used Cover Flow, but the one view I am fully expecting Apple to restore in one of the next updates is the albums list view from 10.7.  That's the view that lists all of the songs but separates everything by albums, and shows the album artwork, album artist, and album rating on the left hand side.  For someone with a huge library who is constantly adding to it and editing it, it was by far the only view that made sense to use.  And, for some reason that makes no sense, it was omitted from iTunes 11.

     

    So I will wait to update until it is brought back.  It had to be an oversight that it was removed in the first place.

  • BopCat Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jan 21, 2013 5:06 AM (in response to Mark Block)

     

     

    BopCat wrote:


    ... Cover View? Never used it. Eye candy for some I supposed, it just got in my way. Get rid of it. Check. ... I understand iTunes 11 has lost functionality fundamentally important to some users. I hope those are added in updates, perhaps with improvements. But Cover Flow? Seriously?

     

     

    Seriously. Your post was mostly thoughtful, but the gratuitous nonsense you wrote about Cover Flow is not.

     

    Which was it, that you never used it or that it got in your way? Can't be both.

    Of course it can be both. It got in my way. So I never used it. Others, like you, may have different perspectives. Feel free to share as others have. :-)

     

    I don't think it was loved by everyone, obviously, but cover flow was greatly appreciated by many. But I doubt they're bringing it back, at least not as is. It's not in keeping with the new aesthetic, or the feel of the new modern approach.

     

    Ive (or a disciple) isn't one to stick a lot of stuff in, especially when there's a cleaner, more efficient way of doing something that's consistent with the overall product design. Not one for bells and whistles. And that's what cover flow feels like from the iTunes 11 perspective. Again, IMHO.

     

    Interesting suggestion at the end of your post about clicking to bring up expanded view.

  • verbcrunch Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 7:14 AM (in response to rustyintegrale)

    After using iTunes 11 for a month, I finally reverted back to iTunes 10.7 - my god it felt like an UPGRADE, like it was the latest and snazziest new piece of software light years ahead of its predesseor ..  

     

    Secret to upgrading:   any changes made since your last library backup, save as a playlist and export it.   Then import it when you get iTunes 10 back up.

     

    rustyintegrale wrote:

     


    iTunes 11 feels like the future to me, and like it or not, it is. 

     

    Like it or not, you seem to have a sense of humour failure!

     

    I sincerely hope iTunes 11 is not the future, because at the moment it's going backwards - fast.

  • BopCat Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 8:08 AM (in response to verbcrunch)

     

     

    After using iTunes 11 for a month, I finally reverted back to iTunes 10.7 - my god it felt like an UPGRADE, like it was the latest and snazziest new piece of software light years ahead of its predesseor .. 

     

    Secret to upgrading:   any changes made since your last library backup, save as a playlist and export it.   Then import it when you get iTunes 10 back up.

     

    rustyintegrale wrote:

     


    iTunes 11 feels like the future to me, and like it or not, it is.

     

    Like it or not, you seem to have a sense of humour failure!

     

    I sincerely hope iTunes 11 is not the future, because at the moment it's going backwards - fast.

     

    When you're switching back, you might also consider you're going from the first build of a major update, iTunes 11, to a late or final roll-out of 10. It may feel more built out because it is.

     

    From my perspective as a user, the underlying framework of iTunes 10 is rooted in a different period, before tablets and the cloud were all the rage. Even the mighty store felt like it was "tacked on", or an "extra" added to the jukebox, which may be fine for some, but not so much for Apple.

     

    iTunes 11 is the first build of an integrated program fundamentally designed for current and forward technologies, where 10 was always going to have stuff "tacked on" to keep up with the way we use our computers today, and likely will tomorrow.

     

    rustyintegrale, it's true. It was a long post, so I cut the funny bits from my usual routine. ;-)

     

    I didn't mean to come across as an oracle or something when I wrote,

     

    "iTunes 11 feels like the future to me, and like it or not, it is."

     

    I mean, there it is, staring back at me. Like it or not.

     

    As I've mentioned, ad nauseum (sorry), iTunes 11 is the first build. It's pretty straight forward and fundamental, I think. There have been some problems, as I noted, and I don't completely agree with the fundamental direction, which I believe is responsible for my iTunes album artwork issues. Again, don't get me started.

     

    Ironing those few bugs out now is important. Get the foundation right and the rest should come easy. Or easier.

     

    Features can, and of course will, be added later, over a period of years, perhaps including improved versions of previous favourites redesigned to work in the new environment. I can think of a few new features I'd like to see already, real simple, easy ones.

     

    It's that kind of build, i believe - one founded in the cloud, in the store, and one which considers all of the new ways we're connecting with "our" computers now, and how we will moving ahead.

  • verbcrunch Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 8:27 AM (in response to BopCat)

    BopCat wrote:

     

    It's that kind of build, i believe - one founded in the cloud, in the store, and one which considers all of the new ways we're connecting with "our" computers now, and how we will moving ahead.

     

    I agree BopCat.    There's a lot I reallylike about iTunes11, but after a couple of incidents that required ridiculous workarounds to remedy, I finally decided what's good about iTunes 11 is outweighed by the drawbacks.    When those are addressed, I'll happily upgrade, but untill then iTunes11 for all practical purposes is still in "beta".

  • rustyintegrale Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 8:56 AM (in response to BopCat)


    It's that kind of build, i believe - one founded in the cloud, in the store, and one which considers all of the new ways we're connecting with "our" computers now, and how we will moving ahead.

     

    First of all, iTunes was built as a music player and manager. It has grown to envelop all kinds of media so it is now a media player and manager.

     

    As you say, iTunes Store and many other functions have been bolted on and Apple has largely been successful integrating new technologies into each incarnation of iTunes.

     

    Don't get me wrong I'm neither afraid of technology nor scared of progress - far from it. But iTunes 11 seems to remove the freedom of choice from the user. It is plainly progressing towards a 'cloud' based media server so that iOS devices and users can have their pockets emptied and their choices curtailed and controlled by Apple.

     

    I was really hoping that iTunes 11 would deliver high resolution sound. I can count on one hand the music I have bought from the iTunes Store and this is primarily because the sound quality has been so poor. Had Apple the gumption to seize the opportunity to offer what many users hoped for instead of limiting the capabilities of the software, then they might win more customers.

     

    Instead they are choosing to alienate those who prefer to keep their media files locally and privately in favour of iOS users who don't care about sound quality because they use those lousy white earphones and quite possibly have never experienced anything close to high fidelity.

     

    It's a throwaway world we live in now, music comes, music goes but some music sticks around forever. That's no different now to how it's always been. iTunes music is akin to the 45rpm singles of decades ago. The music offered is almost a sampler to the better quality, beautifully packaged and more desirable album. I would never download an album from iTunes because it will sound poor on my hi-fi and eventually become forgotten. Albums are never forgotten because they constantly give pleasure - unlike their cheapskate siblings, the singles.

     

    Not only that there are plenty of other resources offering the sonic pleasures I seek at far less cost. Plus they don't dictate how I should store, file and listen to it.

     

    Coming back on topic for a minute, Cover Flow completes the music listening experience as best it can digitally. With iTunes 11, the art is cannibalised and in some cases completely removed. I can thankfully replace that but what I can't replace is the raft of music ripped at CD quality and the extra special stuff downloaded as high resolution audio.

     

    What next, a monochrome 50s TV to replace a Retina display? Would you sit back and claim that to be progress?

  • Drew Reece (Re:co) Level 2 Level 2 (310 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 9:18 AM (in response to BopCat)

    BopCat wrote:

    From my perspective as a user, the underlying framework of iTunes 10 is rooted in a different period, before tablets and the cloud were all the rage. Even the mighty store felt like it was "tacked on", or an "extra" added to the jukebox, which may be fine for some, but not so much for Apple.

     

    iTunes 11 is the first build of an integrated program fundamentally designed for current and forward technologies, where 10 was always going to have stuff "tacked on" to keep up with the way we use our computers today, and likely will tomorrow.

     

     

    As I've mentioned, ad nauseum (sorry), iTunes 11 is the first build. It's pretty straight forward and fundamental, I think. There have been some problems, as I noted, and I don't completely agree with the fundamental direction, which I believe is responsible for my iTunes album artwork issues. Again, don't get me started.

     

     

    I don't think 11 is a major rebuild of iTunes, it has the same problems & limitations that have been in iTunes for many years.

    The preferences dialog still blocks the main thread, as does the info panel (compare it to TextEdit). Connecting iPod's & iPhones still causes the GUI to pause momentarily.

    Does iTunes 11 show history in the app window like Mail when restoring inside Time Machine? (I didn't get to test this).

    The Store still makes it practically impossible to keep track of things you look at, how can you compare two or three similar apps or albums? (tip: find links & copy to a real browser).

    The Store wants to be a simple browser, but doesn't provide any 'browser tools' (searchable history, tabs, bookmarks, links to specific songs) and what is the point of wish lists that you can't share?

     

    … All minor points, but they indicate underneath the gui little has actually changed.

     

    People (podcasts, Mac new sites & publications) have been calling out for a rebuild or reworking of iTunes as more syncing features, App's, TV shows & Books were added to what is essentially a music player/ organizer.

     

    iTunes 11 is yet another 'tacked on' upgrade that removed things that people seem to like (judging by this thread).

     

    Hopefully it will make way for an actual rethinking of the interface and a real overhaul of the code.

     

    Personally I think iSync could have been turned into a 'sync library manager' that managed content from other apps to sync it onto devices, iTunes could just be the media player & streamer.

  • Mark Block Level 2 Level 2 (270 points)

    Drew Reece (Re:co) wrote:

    I don't think 11 is a major rebuild of iTunes, it has the same problems & limitations that have been in iTunes for many years.

    ...

     

    iTunes 11 is yet another 'tacked on' upgrade that removed things that people seem to like (judging by this thread).

    I agree completely. Good post. Apple is just noodling around the edges, not thinking different.

     

    And I don't think the iTunes 11 changes have anything to do with Ive's aesthetic values. Apple designers will change the iTunes colors one year, then take the colors out entirely the next (version 10), then put them back in (version 11). That's what Detroit used to do for new cars releases every September -- while making crappy cars and running the business into the ground.

     

    The user interface was bloated and complicated before, and now it's just as bloated but in different ways. As a music player and database manager, iTunes is still preferable to the competition, but it's not great. Certainly not insanely great. All in all, I think version 10 is nicer.

     

    Speaking of putting the colors back in, I think coloring the icons in the Sidebar is simply good UI design. I was ticked off when everything turned grey in iTunes 10. The colors help the brain navigate on a subconscious level. Likewise, I found that Cover Flow helped my brain navigate when sorting in what is otherwise a plain list view (just like the Songs View in 11). I need some graphics in Songs View to make it easy to spot things.

  • Geraldo Palomo Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 11:40 AM (in response to verbcrunch)

    Please tell me how you reverted to iTunes 10.7? Please.

    I cannot seem to find a way around the new itunes and dont really wish to.

  • verbcrunch Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 12:10 PM (in response to Geraldo Palomo)

    There are a lot of threads here that will tell you how to revert back.      Basically download and install Pacifist from http://www.charlessoft.com/.      Then download iTunes 10.7 here:    http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1576?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

     

    Use Pacifist to install iTunes 10.7, always clicking "replace" not "update".     

     

    It would be prudent to create a backup of your system drive before you do this in case there is a catastrophe.    "Super Duper" is my favorite, it will make a bootable clone of your system drive.     

     

    I ran iTunes 11 for a month, and added about 3000 new songs.     I'm always tweaking my library, and didn't want to lose a month's worth of tweaking.      When you open iTunes 10.7, it won't be able to read your iTunes 11 library, instead you'll need to open the most recent backup prior to upgrading to iTunes 11, which means any information you added after switching to iTunes11 will be lost.

     

    To remedy this, I created a playlist of every song I added since the "date modified" on the iTunes 10 library, and exported it.       (File: Library:  Export Playlist).


    After you get iTunes 10.7 running again, you simply import the playlist you exported in iTunes 11.    All the songs appeared with artwork, ratings, comments, etc - just like they were in iTunes 11.       It was nice to be able to preview the artwork again, nice to open multiple windows again so I could drag songs from list to the other.       And I don't miss "add next" since you could that in iTunes DJ anyway.     Switching back and forth from iTunes DJ to a Genius generated playlist basically gives me the same dynamic playlist capabilities I was enjoying in iTunes 11.           

  • Autofac Calculating status...
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    Jan 21, 2013 2:23 PM (in response to Porf)

    I'll be brave, here--I actually like it.

     

    That said, I don't get too picky about software, I just use it. If I have to learn how to use a new one, I learn.

     

    I never buy anything on the store, I don't have appletv, an iphone, or an wireless-capable ipod touch, or an ipad, or another computer; likewise I don't fiddle much with different qualities, metadata, or even create playlists. I use itunes for putting my music on and listening to my music from--and truthfully, it does exactly that.

     

    Not only that, I like the new options for viewing things--especially the album collage. I have never used cover-flow for anything on a mac so the lack of it doesn't bother me in the least.

  • rustyintegrale Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 2:30 PM (in response to Autofac)

    I don't fiddle much with different qualities, metadata, or even create playlists. I use itunes for putting my music on and listening to my music from--and truthfully, it does exactly that.

     

    Not only that, I like the new options for viewing things--especially the album collage. I have never used cover-flow for anything on a mac so the lack of it doesn't bother me in the least.

     

    Well no wonder it suits you - you're exactly the user Apple wants except you don't seem to buy much hardware.

     

    But for those of us that do all these things and more the story is different.

  • pegaudet Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 4:43 PM (in response to rustyintegrale)

    rustyintegrale wrote:

     

    Not only that there are plenty of other resources offering the sonic pleasures I seek at far less cost. Plus they don't dictate how I should store, file and listen to it.

     

     

    Rustyintegrale,

     

    (sorry for the verbiage, there is a question or two in there)

     

    I'm a lot like you when it comes to listening to my music. I haven't got to the point where I'd want 24bit 96kbps stereo wave on a high end stereo, but I do also feel a bit ripped off that I'm paying little less than the cost of an actual CD and settle for 224kbs CBR.

     

    Sadly, I have done some serious research and so far I have yet to find any media player that can compete with the ipod of any incarnation for battery life, ergonomics and relative ease of use (that includes smart playlists).

     

    If Apple were to open their ipod database format and let us use our own media managers, I would have virtually no use for itunes and with a viable app alternative, would drop kick it faster than Tim Cook could way "what happened?".

     

    I have 4 1/2 bankers boxes full of CDs for that genuine CD quality that I rip in Linux and compress as flac and mp3 VBR joint/stereo (comparable to quality I get from itunes at a fraction of the space requirements, with original wave backup).

     

    So far I'm buying from itunes to fill the odd single or song to complement my greatest hits, etc, but I do also feel as if Apple's audio kwolitee to price ratio is a rip off.

     

    So, which sites would you recommend for online music purchases? (I have found some in the UK that are looking to provide flac as an option, but so far are still 320kbps CBR and there might also be region laws that prevent me from buying some things from them.. I'm in Canada)

     

    I don't have any attachment to the physical medium and downloading an electronic lossless version (e.g. flac) would be fine for me (but having the actual CD is reassuring)

     

    And for that matter, have you encountered any itunes alternative that can manage the ipod as completely as itunes can or as closely to itunes as you can get?

     

    I heard of rhythmbox (I do run Linux at home), but the FOSS crowd hasn't seemed to figure out the latest ipod library database yet.

     

    Thanks.

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