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Self-formatting document for left/right pages

586 Views 10 Replies Latest reply: Jan 21, 2013 8:41 AM by PeterBreis0807 RSS
Moscool Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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Jan 20, 2013 2:57 PM

I have been working really hard getting this to work in Adobe InDesign and must declare failure, so I was wondering if Pages would be an appropriate alternative programme to achieve what I want to do below.

 

Here we go:

 

I want to create training documents which have different left and right pages, with the option to add remove and shuffle pages depending on the course on the day, with all titles and graphics correctly aligned to left or right page format.

 

So I created Master pages in InDesign for the left and right pages which have both graphic elements and page numbers, but also text placeholders with different positions depending if it is on the left or right and different text alignments. The Masters use specific paragraph styles for a number of text boxes which look different depending if they are on the left or right page.

 

Essentially this doesn't work for reasons that are too detailed on a Pages forum. I can make it work once, but the minute I add/remove or shuffle pages around, it doesn't update automatically and I lose the will to live!

 

Could Pages help? If Yes, how? Are there examples of existing documents I could look at?

 

Thanks!

MacBook Air, Mac OS X (10.7.3), i7 - 4/240
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,360 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 3:53 PM (in response to Moscool)

    Pages does have "Different left and right pages" but they are principally for different headers and footers.

     

    Pages also has Layout mode where the pages are completely individual, and can be dragged from one location to another. The pages can be linked from textboxes on one page to another,.

     

    In Layout mode you can have a master page which has the necessary layout and appearance that you require for left or right pages, but once created they will not intelligently change form one to the other, according to whether they are left or right.

     

    Peter

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,360 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 5:31 PM (in response to Moscool)

    Not really.

     

    Indesign has a full on master pages implementation, which works retrospectively on any layouts built with them.

     

    Pages' Layout mode is really just a crippled version of the Word Processing mode for those who found its linkages confusing. Each page in Layout mode is created from an internal single page template, that is not retrospective. ie if you change the page template, known as a Section, it has no effect on the already used pages in the document.

     

    Pages can be simpler to use for neophytes to DTP and WP if they largely restrict themselves to the supplied excellent templates. When they attempt to go beyond that, Pages can be quite clumsy and arcane in its operation, particularly in its schizophrenic Word Processing/Layout modes and the way the Layout/Sections are created and applied.

     

    I've been using Pages for years and I still have to consult notes, and really concentrate to use these, not always successfully.

     

    Peter

  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (14,775 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 9:42 PM (in response to Moscool)

    You can check Facing pages in the Document Inspector

    Bild 2013-01-21 kl. 06.41.26.png

  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,360 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2013 9:57 PM (in response to fruhulda)

    fruhulda

     

    That does nothing except position the headers and footers.

     

    If you have a Layout mode Page in your document with a left or right design, it is not adjusted at all for the leftness or rightness of its actual location in the document.

     

    Something that every DTP application I know has been capable of doing for decades.

     

    Peter

  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (14,775 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 10:24 PM (in response to PeterBreis0807)

    It does if you change the margins to be different on left and right.

  • Yellowbox Level 4 Level 4 (3,920 points)
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    Jan 20, 2013 10:34 PM (in response to fruhulda)

    Hi,

     

    I am new to Pages but this worked. Start with a new blank document (Word Processing > Blank). Enter some text. Then:

     

    Screen Shot 2013-01-21 at 5.24.22 PM.png  Screen Shot 2013-01-21 at 5.24.48 PM.png

     

     

    Align odd and even Headers to left and right, to get:

    Screen Shot 2013-01-21 at 5.24.06 PM.pngScreen Shot 2013-01-21 at 5.23.46 PM.png

     

    It looks fine to me in normal (word processing) view, in View Page Thumbnails and in Print Preview.

     

    Unless I have missed something...

     

    Ian.

    MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2)
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,360 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2013 10:46 PM (in response to Yellowbox)

    Try it with a Layout mode document.

     

    Peter

  • Yellowbox Level 4 Level 4 (3,920 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 3:57 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)

    Hi Peter,

     

    Thank you for directing me towards trying Facing Pages in a Layout mode document. It reminded me of what I used to do...

     

    Once Upon a Time (Long, Long Ago, in the Olden Days) I used Word for Mac and MacDraw. Those apps had two different approaches to creating a document.

     

    Word (it had only word processor mode) worked as a roll of paper. You typed, and the roll of paper unwound. As the length of the text grew, a new page appeared automatically.

     

    MacDraw worked with Layout mode: drawing objects and text boxes that you could type into, resize, and move around the drawing canvas. If you needed a new page, you inserted a new page (by increasing the document size).

     

    It seems that Pages has combined these two approaches. Therefore we must decide at the start which approach (word processing or layout) best suits our aim, and also which approach best suits our way of thinking.

     

    Ian.

    MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2)
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (27,360 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 21, 2013 8:41 AM (in response to Yellowbox)

    Ah the dreaded MacDraw!

     

    I used to have to fix MacDraw files for print output. Government departments used to create forms in them because nobody sat down to think things through and use something that actually worked, instead of what they knew, in some limited fashion.

     

    I hope that wasn't you.

     

    Peter

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