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MAC Mail not saving all sent items

141159 Views 575 Replies Latest reply: Apr 4, 2014 6:36 AM by __kckc__ RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • LateMacAdopter Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 12:33 PM (in response to Everic)

    Everic,

     

    I agree that any company's tech support can be spotty, and Apple can have the same expansion problems that any company has.

     

    BUT, in this case three different support people claimed that they had "never encountered these problems with yahoo mail, this is a first"...

     

    Really?  I am the only person using a Yahoo account on Apple Mail with missing/disappearing sent emails? The statistical probability of that defies reason - especially over two different calls in three months, three support (one Senior) - and there's also this inconvenient fact that it's all over there own support site.

     

    And, to boot, there's a single keystroke combination override to bring up a completely normal Apple Mail interface to add POP.  The capability is there - Apple just doesn't want people mixing POP and IMAP with their Mail accounts and iOS devices.  Just have it all auto-default to settings on IMAP.  It's easier to give them one option and cut down on calls from grandmas and nine year olds getting Ipads and Iphones.  I get the impulse to do that. But they wasted my time, a lot of my time.

     

    This isn't some obscure program, or esoteric functionality I am requesting.  Basic stuff - POP and IMAP are two starndards.  THE two standards.

     

    Hours and hours later someone who isn't even an Apple tech (no offense at all intended, Everic, I am grateful!) gives me the inside scoop on a simple keystroke that brings up the choices I had a year ago - already built into the program. 

     

    F#$#$ng waste of my time. 

  • schveiguy Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 12:37 PM (in response to Csound1)

    Very confusing indeed!

     

    I do not have a plus account, so I cannot confirm or deny that using a plus account is what makes it work.  But I tried every possible combination of username password port numbers, etc.  I could not get Yahoo mail via pop with my free account.  Imap works fine (well, except for the issue that this *original* thread is about).

     

    According to Yahoo's own policy, they only allow pop access with a plus account.  See here: http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_MAIL_ML&locale=en_US&id=SLN34 22&impressions=true

     

    When I go to my yahoo mail page via a browser, and click mail options -> pop and forwarding, it requests that I pay for yahoo mail plus to get pop access and forwarding.

     

    From these pages, I would suspect that either a) you have found some sort of glitch, or b) there are regional allowances for pop (i.e. if you live in region x, you get free pop access).

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 12:38 PM (in response to LateMacAdopter)

    LateMacAdopter wrote:

     

    Everic,

     

    This isn't some obscure program, or esoteric functionality I am requesting.  Basic stuff - POP and IMAP are two starndards.  THE two standards.

     

    Actually 2 of 3 standards (Exchange being the 3rd, and best of them) but you are  right in that the option for POP is not clearly described anywhere.

     

    Also I have found inconsistencies, some say you must have a Yahoo plus account, but I don't. The option key to select Manual setup works in Mail, Contacts and Calendars (but not for all users) and it works in Mail.app (but not for all users).

     

    Some of this has to do with Yahoo who publish contradictory server settings and requirements for POP access. It reminds me exacty why I do not use Yahoo any more.

  • LateMacAdopter Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:04 PM (in response to Csound1)

    Looking around online, it appears Yahoo POP access is free to UK and some other countries or regions, while in the US you need to have Yahoo Plus and use the yahoo plus incoming server in setting:  plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com

     

    Yahoo may be totally screwed up...I can't attest to any of that.  I know I have had Yahoo Plus for probably eight years now.  I know that every other smartphone and blackberry I have had (at least four now) as well as Outlook 2003, Outlook 2007 and Apple Mail up until Mountain Lion - they all let me use Yahoo POP with ease.  Never was an issue.

     

    Why now?  Why the secret keystroke to manually set it?  Why the endless issues across this support board (not just Yahoo with POP - others, too) with missing sent emails, erratic behavior, and the inability to override the auto-default to IMAP with Apple Mail?

     

    I think my suspicions are probably accurate.  They want to keep it simple (simpler) for the inexperienced now adopting Macs and iOS devices, even if Apple Mail itself isn't up to the task to handle IMAP.  This stuff, these problems, are all over the internet and this support board.  This isn't a problem with users, these are issues having to do with Apple Mail and IMAP.

     

    To all those that want something else, sorry.  Try another program...and now you lose all the contact/address synching you wanted when you bought into the Apple ecosystem...

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:12 PM (in response to LateMacAdopter)

    LateMacAdopter wrote:

     

    Looking around online, it appears Yahoo POP access is free to UK and some other countries or regions, while in the US you need to have Yahoo Plus and use the yahoo plus incoming server in setting:  plus.pop.mail.yahoo.com

     

    Yahoo may be totally screwed up...I can't attest to any of that.  I know I have had Yahoo Plus for probably eight years now.  I know that every other smartphone and blackberry I have had (at least four now) as well as Outlook 2003, Outlook 2007 and Apple Mail up until Mountain Lion - they all let me use Yahoo POP with ease.  Never was an issue.

     

    Why now?  Why the secret keystroke to manually set it?  Why the endless issues across this support board (not just Yahoo with POP - others, too) with missing sent emails, erratic behavior, and the inability to override the auto-default to IMAP with Apple Mail?

     

    I think my suspicions are probably accurate.  They want to keep it simple (simpler) for the inexperienced now adopting Macs and iOS devices, even if Apple Mail itself isn't up to the task to handle IMAP.  This stuff, these problems, are all over the internet and this support board.  This isn't a problem with users, these are issues having to do with Apple Mail and IMAP.

     

    To all those that want something else, sorry.  Try another program...and now you lose all the contact/address synching you wanted when you bought into the Apple ecosystem...

    I think you picked the correct cause but not the actual reason, using multiple devices POP is simply awful, devices do not synchronize. Imap gives a unified mail system that is reflected on all connected clients, but the clients are now interlinked, delete a mail anywhere and it's gone. Some users don't like that. But, as the smartphone/tablet continues to grow in sales the demand for services that allow for Contacts, Calendars and Mail etc to be in synchronicity over a number of devices will increase. POP is not that service. I have no issues adding POP accounts to Mail, but I check the requirements first.

     

    In practice I simply avoid POP systems because of my need to see my data across multiple devices, so I use Exchange for business and Imap (iCloud) for all else. POP is only used for troubleshooting user issues, not my own.

  • Everic Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:13 PM (in response to LateMacAdopter)

    LateMacAdopter wrote:

     

    Looking around online, it appears Yahoo POP access is free to UK and some other countries or regions, while in the US you need to have Yahoo Plus ...

    This is the explanation, I am in Europe.

     

    I dont know why they hide it. I mean it would be okay and convinient to use IMAP if mail.app would save sent mails propperly. POP is no solution for me because of too many devices. So I had to switch to Postbox.

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:17 PM (in response to Everic)

    Everic wrote:

     

    LateMacAdopter wrote:

     

    Looking around online, it appears Yahoo POP access is free to UK and some other countries or regions, while in the US you need to have Yahoo Plus ...

    This is the explanation, I am in Europe.

     

    I dont know why they hide it. I mean it would be okay and convinient to use IMAP if mail.app would save sent mails propperly. POP is no solution for me because of too many devices. So I had to switch to Postbox.

     

     

    It appears that Yahoo have yet to figure out that the internet doesn't really have borders, and I agree that finding the option for manual setup (in Mail) should be more obvious (more than not obvious anyway)

  • schveiguy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:32 PM (in response to LateMacAdopter)

    In general Imap is a MUCH beter solution than POP.  As others have said, you have a unified view of all your mail, change it in one place, it changes everywhere.  You never have the dreaded "double download" bug (common in some versions of Windows mail clients).

     

    But when basic features like saving sent mail DON'T WORK, it makes Mail.app seem like a new untested technology instead of something from the early 90s.  I had a solidly working Imap solution with Netscape Navigator in 1999!  I don't fault apple for making yahoo default to imap, and making it an "advanced feature" to use pop, but the irony here is that it DOESN'T WORK RIGHT!  As I've said in the past on this thread, it does not look good when Yahoo mail is one of the "sanctioned" providers listed on the types of email accounts you can create, and the default mode doesn't work.

     

    What I would expect is a DEFAULT to imap, but give you an "advanced settings" version for people who want to hand-configure their email.  To have to use some secret key stroke, or type in the password wrong to activate the advanced mode is quite aggravating.

     

    When I get some free time, I'm going to wireshark this crap, and shove it right in apple's lap.  If they don't acknowledge the problem, I will publish to gizmodo.  Seems like the only way they listen...

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:37 PM (in response to schveiguy)

    schveiguy wrote:

     

    In general Imap is a MUCH beter solution than POP.  As others have said, you have a unified view of all your mail, change it in one place, it changes everywhere.  You never have the dreaded "double download" bug (common in some versions of Windows mail clients).

     

    But when basic features like saving sent mail DON'T WORK, it makes Mail.app seem like a new untested technology instead of something from the early 90s.

    But they do, I use Mail daily, multiple accounts, all Imap or Exchange with no issues. This problem usually stems from the wrong mailbox (in Mail) being used for Sent items.

     

    Use Spotlight to search for a Sent email, when you find one (and I will bet that you will) check which mailbox it is in, once that is established select the mailbox, go to the Mailbox menu and choose 'Use This Mailbox for Sent"

  • schveiguy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:47 PM (in response to Csound1)

    Oh, trust me.  It DOES NOT WORK.  I have the correct sent mail selected, and I also have the option to include related messages, which shows any sent or received mail related to the currently selected message, no matter what folder it is in.  The message is GONE (althought it does get sent).  This happens probably once every 20-40 messages I send, most of them do make it to the sent folder.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Mac's mail program and its features.  And I use it every day, because even though I don't see sent messages every once in a while, for the most part it works just fine.

     

    But not having sent mail saved at any point (even once in a while) is not an acceptable fault.  It needs to be fixed.

     

    My guess is that Yahoo's servers are throwing back an unexpected error while trying to save, and instead of saving the sent mail locally or trying again, mac mail just gives up and throws it into the ether.  It doesn't seem to happen with my work account which is also imap.  I also have a gmail account, but I'm not sure it happens there either.  I think gmail automatically saves your sent messages through its smtp server to your sent folder, so I think mac mail is not involved there.

     

    There are other problems too, see here: https://discussions.apple.com/message/19094309#19094309

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:52 PM (in response to schveiguy)

    Go to the website, check the sent folder there, if it contains the mail it is incorrectly mapped on your Mac, Imap is a simple system, there are very few errors possible, bad mapping is by far the most common.

     

    If it is not on the website then it is a server error and should be addressed to Yahoo tech support.

  • schveiguy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 1:57 PM (in response to Csound1)

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    Go to the website, check the sent folder there, if the mail is contained there it is incorrectly mapped on your Mac, Imap is a simple system, there are very few errors possible, bad mapping is by far the most common.

    I did that (the first time this happened) because I didn't know if the mail actually went out (it did, I got a reply with my original mail text in it).  Every folder in my yahoo account has a mapped folder on my mac.  It's just gone, there is no way to get it back.

     

    Really, I don't know how else to explain it.  Mac mail loses sent messages, even if it doesn't do it every time and for every person.  I think about 15 people on this thread have tried to suggest mapping to the "correct" sent mail, and for some here, that was their problem.  But there are some of us who see the real problem.  It's not the same.

  • schveiguy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 2:00 PM (in response to Csound1)

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    If it is not on the website then it is a server error and should be addressed to Yahoo tech support.

    You must have added this later, I didn't see it.

     

    The ONLY way I will fault Yahoo is if their server replies with a "Yep, I saved it in the sent mail folder" to Mac mail (I will get around to wiresharking this behavior).  Otherwise, if they respond with a "no I couldn't save it" and mac mail throws the message away, that is Mail.app's fault, it is responsible for making sure I don't lose anything due to server errors.

  • LateMacAdopter Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 2:07 PM (in response to schveiguy)

    schveiguy,

     

    You described the exact same problem I have, except it's about every 5 or so emails I send - they are not anywhere on the yahoo server and not anywhere in Apple Mail - but (after embarrassing calls to clients) apparently most seem to have been received by them/or sent. 

     

    It isn't acceptable.  This is basic stuff.  I don't think you or I are the only people having this problem (as evidenced across the web, the Apple support forum...etc). 

     

    To have Apple phone support tell me they have never encountered this, with three different support people over two different calls - I don't buy it.

  • Csound1 Level 7 Level 7 (32,380 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 26, 2013 2:09 PM (in response to schveiguy)

    schveiguy wrote:

     

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    If it is not on the website then it is a server error and should be addressed to Yahoo tech support.

    You must have added this later, I didn't see it.

    No, one post only.

     

    Did you go and see if the sent mail is on the Yahoo server, (the question I asked), if you did what was the answer.

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