Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 3:29 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
"I suspect it is to do with something not being correctly installed or updated, OS X / software wise... " this guess.
Buddhistmarty, what has been forcing the lag to stop with 75% success for me is right clicking on the Logic tab and reselecting the song that is currently lagging. So this will often cut down lag time, but as far as I'm concerned, once the software lags the damage is already done. I got a copy of DP from a friend to try out last night, I'm sad to say. Apple... please get it together!
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 3:38 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
Fredo, same as me. Trying ableton 8 with 64 bit support.
Is works quite fine to me. Just a matter of time to get used to.
If i can fully utilize ableton, my next computer may even be PC.
Apple logic is not only a shame, it's humiliation to us music makers.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 4:00 AM (in response to buddhistmarty)
To be honest, B, I still really love Logic Pro. A lot. I tried Abelton a few years ago because I do live looping as a creative exercise and Logic's infinite looper has a great many limits. I really didn't like Abelton and still just use Logic to loop. I even forced myself to do some tutorials, thinking it was just laziness that was making me hate the interface so much. Still hate it. And still love Logic. That's why this is so frustrating. It really appears that Apple just doesn't care about making their Logic Pro users experiencing this problem wait. Month after month go by with no fix, no ML upgrade, and no apology from Apple! It's really pretty shocking.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 4:07 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
Another dubious approach to stop the lag (if it occurs)
Is to go preference and change the display setting. U may another 70% stopping the lag.
Me too a logic lover, but no way keep wallowing when heart is breaking.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 7:21 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
Fredo Viola wrote:
"I suspect it is to do with something not being correctly installed or updated, OS X / software wise... " this guess.
Well, the 'logic' to this is as I described...
Two identical Macs, hardware wise... One has the lag and one doesn't
Clone the System drive from the one that doesn't have the lag onto the one that does.. and the problem vanishes..
Therefore it has to be a software issue and as i said, it has to be something that either wasn't installed correctly or wasn't updated correctly.. be it a part of OS X or other software such as Logic itself.
Makes sense don't you think?
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 7:24 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
All I know is that the Logic and Mountain Lion teams have both identified it as being a Mountain Lion issue. Neither team have been forthcoming with the specifics of the problem to me, but apparently the problem will be solved in the next Mountain Lion update. That's what was told to me by one of the senior members of the Logic Pro staff. He said they'd identified the problem within Mountain Lion and had fixed it. So apparently it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with faulty installation.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 7:36 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
If it is something wrong with ML....
(and btw.. it also affects people who are running SL and Lion so it's not just ML users and it isn't just a part of ML itself that is causing the issue )
...and it doesn't affect everyone then it has to be something that either didn't update correctly or wasn't installed correctly (if at all!)... otherwise everyone would have the issue.. It's just common sense.
Note: I am not saying it is the User's fault, in case that is what you are thinking I am intimating... Nor am I saying it has been caused by 3rd party software or plugins.... becaue that is plainly not so. It happens on some systems that are completely 'clean' installed.
I am simply saying that something, somewhere along the road, got screwed up and it only happened to some people and not everyone...which clearly indicates it's as I said... something, somewhere along the line... not correctly updated or installed.
How else could it have occurred Fredo, given that it only affects some people and not all?
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 7:37 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
I don't know, but neither can you. You are just making conjectures here. This is one of the reasons why I am so frustrated that the folks who CAN know (the Mountain Lion team) have left us all hanging for so long.
And, btw, if it had been so easy as something not installed correctly, do you think the ML team would have put in time to develop a fix? They would have merely made the suggestion that folks reinstall either Logic Pro, Mountain Lion or both. That is common sense.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 8:19 AM (in response to Mark Lindsey)
I am not a technical person, and I'm not sure what I am about to suggest isn't a possibility. All I can say is that I have had enough experince with Mac's to know that a new vanllla Mac from Apple with and OS version "ready to install" i.e., with no hardware conncted, is different than the same Mac after the OS is unpacked, after recognizing hardware, of as manof us do checking the boxes to copy settings etc., from a previous system. The OS by design sees hardware that is connected, and copies other settings, like prefences - some of which are placed in the App Support flders, or one of the two other Libraries (main system and user).
This means that there is likely to be one or more files, settings, system preferences that affect performance in way we cannot imagine- and Logic may be an unfortunate victim. Even setting that relate to Apple pro apps like Final Cut Pro X may have dislay preferences that could under certain conditions affect something about the way Logic sees or reacts to (for one example) a control surface, including "a sapce bar," or the display, or the transport, which is a software controller of sorts.
I purchased a seemingly clever and simple device from Novation, called an SL (something). It required me to install the latest software interface for it to work. All I really wanted was its transport control, howver the installer changed hundreds of unknownn "things" in my system. Ths was when the Lag probem started for me- and t was much more dramatic than now. I spent hours on calls and with emails back and forth to Focurite tech support. In the end I uninstalled the software and returned the device, deleted Logic prefs and CSU file. I have no control surface now but I do have the Lag.
Logic, for some reason, was not designed to be independent of Core Audio (either) in the way that other DAWs are. It assumes a Mac is used for obvious resasons. As a result, it is more difficult, impossible, to reassign track routings, audio regions, and other Audio settings in the way an app like Cubase does (using VST). I am not suggesting Cubase is a better DAW, or VST is a superior technlogy or wrapper or whatever, and it has had its own issues over the years. What I'm saying is - agreeing with these other posts - Apple has to be looking at the OS, the otherwise tangled yet ought-to-be unrealted bits of settings, system and app support files, that cause these type of anaomolies and behaviors.
When 10.8.2 was released, a Final Cut Pro X update came out simultaneously. I produce some TV and was using the new app, which was being trashed at the time. Out of nowhere, in FC any video in my timeline became posterized. After three days of phone support, all the way up to CPU senior level where a guy had me set up a new users, begin trashing all my user caches, prefs and app support files and folders, my phone's battery went dead. I decided to bail out. I called Apple the next day and got on with a GENIUS named David, who put my on hold for ten minutes, and came back saying he found "something" internally documented and had one question - "Do [I] calibrate my Cinema display?" Yes I did. He asked me to change it to "Default." Problem gone! Out of the box thiking. Apple!
I installed a Canon scanner once on an old laptp. I got stupid error messages every time I installed an app on my 8-Core that I copied personal settings from. (i found the single cause an deleted it) We install apps and unistall them. "Errors" we find in Disk Utlility coming from "nowhere," but are supoosedly begnine.
My point it that thee are certainly thousands of connections among the OS, apps and software we do not know of. Third party apps that were tested by Apple and plug-in companies. Any one of dozens of these could be the cause for this Lag. These could have been put there by an old piece of hadrware, an app or the OS - recognizing any of these - and these can be connected to display, USB (keyboard), Core Audio, memory conflicts. plug-ins, yada yada. Remind anyone of Windows over the years?
Anyhow, that's my two cents. I want to recognize and thank all of you for particiapating and helping the team at Apple. I too love Logic. I use a few DAWs, and have had to reply on one recently. There are other issues with Logic that have been much more troubling for me (I meantion one above). I look forward to a fix (Logic, OS or both- and the new version). I see myself using Logic for a lot of my radio and TV audio production. I'd like to recommend a DAW that I have also used over the years but is now amazing. I will not do this here because it unrealted to the substance and reason for my post (buried and unkbown connections in the OS and Logic's behavior). And I don't want to jeopardize my (long winded) comment being trashed. We're all interested in Logic...
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 8:43 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
You either don't recall or you weren't around when the infamous "Prokit' issue arose around the time of the change from Leopard to Snow Leopard...
There are a lot of similarities in the nature of what has been going on between that problem and this....
The Prokit 'issue' caused some but not all users.. (as one example) to be unable to save projects in Logic.
This issue didn't affect everyone and it could happen on 'clean' installs and on older 'upgrades'
Eventually it was found there were several causes....amongst which were.. (and this is not an exhaustive list by any means)
#1. For some odd reason, slightly different versions of Prokit were available from Apple's servers.. depending on which one you got your update from. This is one of the reasons why some people had the issue and other didn't.
#2 Depending on the order in which things were updated by the OS X update routines, you could end up with an incorrectly updated Prokit or you may not. Again, another reason why some peoople had the issue and others didn't.
#3 If you installed another Pro App that came out later than the initial release of Snow Leopard but you didn't update to Snow Leopard before installing this update, you got the correct version of Prokit that worked fine with Logic... However, if you then updated to Snow Leopard that 'correct' Prokit' was then changed for a slightly different version which caused the 'fail to save' problem amongst others...
Eventually Apple released a separate Prokit download that they advised everyone to download and install manually... to get everyone 'on the same page' software wise so to speak...and for the most part that did fix the issue. However, it still rears it's head every so often.. even now we are long past Snow Leopard... Every so often someone will post here or elsewhere that they cannot save a file in Logic (or FCPX for that matter as it can affect all Pro Apps) and it's the Prokit that needs to be correctly updated once more.
All these issues are examples of what I am decscribing as "incorrectly updated or installed" and none of them could be fixed easily by simpy reinstalling everything because there were so many different variables in play. It might work and it might not for obvious reasons...
My 'guess' is something along the same lines as the Prokit issue has occurred again. probably for entirely different reasons but similar in nature... which is why it has taken so long to properly identify and fix...because of all the different ways things can happen.
Issues that affect every user are usually much easier to identify the cause of and fix.. It's the ones that only affect a group of users and not others, using the same software and hardware, that are always the hardest to sort out for these very reasons given above.
Below is a link to one of the many different stories about this issue...
A quick search of Google for 'Prokit issue' will produce many different stories relating to the very same issue... over the years...
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