Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 8:49 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
Even being around doesn't help - I've been using Logic since 2004, and this is the first I've heard of that specific problem, because I was never affected by it so I had no reason to look into it (and I don't tend to read the firehose of tech news just for the sake of reading tech news).
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 8:51 AM (in response to fluffy)
Absolutely! I never had the issue myself but roughly 40% of my client base did (which was a complete nightmare for me providing tech help!!) and the forums here and at places like LPH were swamped with people having the same issue for a while...
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:00 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
...and while I remember, here is a recent thread from someone who is still having the "prokit issue' after all this time...
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:08 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
The reason why I am harping on my doubts that it's some poorly installed software is because I took such pains to install on my brand new Mac Pro back when I bought it 10 months ago. I bought an SSD from OWC, 28 gigs of ram and installed ONLY Logic Pro, a very small handful of very well-known 3rd party plugins and instruments (I mostly use Logic instruments and plugins), and the software to run my brand new Apogee Ensemble (chosen because it was supposed to have been the most Mac-friendly.) Even so, I experienced the lag, and rather badly, right out of the gate, as well as problems with my Ensemble (which after many months of tech support I ended up having to return because it is not fully compatible with ML!) I went through many more months of tech support with Apple, removed all 3rd party, reinstalled, etc. etc... The lag is not constant, but when it shows it's head it is horrid. I have gone for a week here and there that it disappears but it's never gone for good.
Also, all of my inner connections to Apple are telling me this is a core audio core / video issue that is well known in Apple and has been effecting all the major apps, not just Logic Pro.
I think it's time to look into other options, unfortunately, and that makes me really sad, and also a bit angry. When I think about the amount of time I've invested in Apple equipment, and my Logic projects, I am furious to have to move on to another DAW in order to avoid these terrible bugs. But I still really hope that with the ML update (whenever it finally comes) this problem will disappear and we'll all be much happier campers! But unfortunately this experience has raised a lot of questions for me about how responsible Apple are to their professional user-base. They have a lot to prove, imo.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:21 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
Oh.. I feel your frustration... and I can fully understand why you would be so angry about this mess...and i truly do sympathize with you and anyone else who still has this issue.
You seem to have done everything correctly and yet there you are, still suffering from this completely annoying bug! I don't think there is anything you could have done differently as i believe the cause is something you have no control over...There does seem to be ways of limiting the likelyhood of getting this bug (as i noted earlier in this thread) but it's still very much a crap shoot for all intent and purpose. I still have one remaining client, who like yourself..no matter what we have tried, endured... is completely at the mercy of Apple.. waiitng for any updates to finally fix this issue... and he is certainly not a happy camper as the many emails i have received from him and umpteen phone calls.. clearly indicate!
It plainly should never have been so and certainly it shouldn't have taken so long to fix, no matter what the cause or reason!
You and I are on the same page you know.... We both just want the wretched thing fixed once and for all!
Fingers crossed it won't be too much longer now.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:27 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)
I've stopped caring whether it's a hardware, software, wetware or fudgeware issue. Right now, this problem is the only thing stopping me from buying my new iMac. I'm sick of the lack of performance I'm getting from my currect Pro... all becasue of Lion, and buying a new Mac is not an option because ML is worse and more bug riddled than it's predecessor. Case in point.
In Windows Land, it would matter if it was a software or hardware issue as more than likely a software bug could be fixed with a new set of drivers or a different system that used a different set of drivers. Doable. Here, its a Apple problem. No fix. No mention. Not even a ******* bug page. Nothing. Nothing but a 500 post forum thread with nay a peep from Apple themselves but universal acknowledgement behind closed doors and a promise that thier 'working on it' from people I don't know and ahve no real reason to believe. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough at all. Forget DP, I only ever had a Mac for Logic and don't really care for it otherwise, it's price simply doesn't justify it's existence in our country. I may as well start learning Cubase or just move to Pro Tools for composition as well at this rate.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:31 AM (in response to gen_)
I may as well start learning Cubase or just move to Pro Tools for composition as well at this rate.
Now that is a scary thought... given the number of people who report serious long term issues with both those programs...
The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence either....
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 9:32 AM (in response to gen_)
Well, gen_, I've actually heard good things about the recent Cubase and DP. (Neither of them look as interesting to me as good old Logic Pro.) But to switch from Mac to PC would be even a more costly transition. As well, I have friends who work with PCs that complain that Windows 8 is to Microsoft pros exactly what Lion/ML are to Apple pros - bloated with professionally useless features that just cause conflicts.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 10:30 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)
fwiw... Cubase has been extremely solid for the past couple of years on an Intel PC I use for professional work in conjunction with the University's Nuendo systems, the project files are interchangeable. It has a full fledged, modern audio editor that's as good as Soundforge. I trust Cubase for professional work more than Logic these days, both L8 and L9 have had reliability problems although for my own stuff I still use Logic.
I've had to troubleshoot my MacPro system w/Logic far more than my PC system with Cubase that's for sure.
Windows-7 , 3.2gHz quad core, 8GB RAM.
I deal with more with audio and recording actual musicians... so maybe that has something to do with it.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 11:01 AM (in response to Pancenter)
+1 on your comments in regards to Cubase and PCs... The personal experiences I have had with Cubase (and more recently PT) has all been on Macs.. Not so good!
You are also correct in as much as probably 90% of my work-work is Midi based with Logic and VEP5 at my own studio. When I am ready to record with a real orchestra (in a real studio!) then my engineers use PT and PCs.. and I leave them to it!
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 11:24 AM (in response to Mark Lindsey)
Ok, so now i'll say it. Cubase 7 works (to quote Larry David) "pretty, pretty good." It's much more than that. It's downright slick in so many ways. I've been working in Logic and Cubase for years. Starting projects in one or the other for various reasons, and keeping both because it's just easier. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.
I create advertising, mostly local these days. I taught a little audio production for advertising and played with most of the apps at the time- staying with these two. Over the years, I have used Logic for radio and TV production for whatever reasons. But I've always preferred Cubase for its sound (32-bt floating point, the reverb, internal plug-ins etc). There have been glitches during certain periods so over time I've swtiched back and forth- and Logic has mostly been the fallback because of its stability. I write and record music, which is for love. I seem to go to Cubase first for my music. 24-bit minimum, 96k these days.
ProTools has been the industry standard for years, and I work in and with "real" studios," and it's always a challenge rather than a normal routine- to track, overdub and mix. I'm in a private studio situation. Without the "real" setup, the hardware I can't justify the expense, as I'm guessing many of the Logic, Cubase, DP, etc., users are. It's been reasonably workable for me and I've constantly upgraded my hardware, the AD, DA, clock, etc. I wonder about how sample rate, the clock, stuff like this affects the system, apps and the OS vis-a-vis Core Audio - as the matrix that distributes the data.
For anyone who's at the point of reconsidering Logic as a DAW, I strongly recommend looking at Cubase 7.
WaveLab 7, by the way, is in my opinion the smartest "mastering" solution. I use quotes because I would never master my own music- Mastering is an art of its own and requires a special room, gear and ears. But for posting an MP3 for radio or a bed for a spot it's really strong, expsiecally since the demise of Peak.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 12:10 PM (in response to Steven W Ross)
If you haven’t seen Walking dead yet, please don’t read, Spoiler alert!
Here is a big secret, psssst... everyone has it..... That’s right! Shocker, if you have lion or above, and logic 9 and above, you got it. You may not experience it, but its there in the software. For the hobbies you may never see it, but rest assured over time you will eventually. We earn money making music in Logic several hours a day. We have gone over 20 hours with no lag then we get it every 5 minutes. Make sure you actually use logic with 3rd party plugs for an extensive amount of time before recommending solutions or saying its not an issue on your computer.
This tread has truly gone on long enough. If logic works, then more power to you. Ableton is the new DAW for us and works extremely well. Logic is a dead product and our colleges are dropping it in droves.
Thanks for the good times Apple. Logic was fun and loved your MacPros when you made them. Sadly all good things come to an end and new good things begin in unexpected places.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 12:21 PM (in response to -mark-)
What you have said is not accurate
Not only does it not affect everyone who is running Lion and above, it can also affect those running Snow Leopard too!
What you have described, may be the case for yourself, and for others out there too... but it is not the case for many professional users.. I know, not only am I one of them but I have a large client base who also use Logic in a professional setting and it simply isn't the case that everyone has this issue.
I'm glad you have found Ableton Live to work for you.. and frankly, that is all that is of importance.. Finding something that works for you and your workflow. I too use Live for certain projects and it works well.. but for other workflows Live just doesn't cut it (yet)
So, for those that don't have this problem, it's business as usual with Logic... thankfully!
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 12:52 PM (in response to -mark-)
Btw.. was your comment about The Walking Dead.. made to indicate you work on that project? If so, who you you work for? I know quite few of the 'team' working on that series so that's why I'm asking...
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 11, 2013 12:53 PM (in response to Mark Lindsey)
Wow, is this thread getting ever long and more pathetic by the post / day? I wonder how Apple's Logic people feel to see these posts. And if anyone in the OS or CPU side care enough about this. As we all seem to be juping off the ship for lack of a reasonable, timely or reliable resoution. Too bad.
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