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The hardware for Apple software

2027 Views 27 Replies Latest reply: Aug 23, 2013 7:56 PM by Ziatron RSS
  • MlchaelLAX Level 4 Level 4 (1,550 points)
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    Feb 19, 2013 5:51 AM (in response to Frank Caggiano)

    Frank Caggiano wrote:

     

    One drawback to this is that Apple loses control of the hardware/software 'system' which is something they have always wanted very strongly to maintain.

    Not "one" drawback, but "THE" drawback.

     

    An interesting intellectual discussion, perhaps; but a time-wasting trip down the yellow brick road to Oz!

     

    My gripe with Apple is that, in a day of near zero expense online-software distribution, Apple's failure to offer some of its legacy software for online sale (such as Leopard, OS 9, etc.) renders its availability on other channels to a more sound "fair use" argument.

  • BobHarris Level 6 Level 6 (12,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2013 6:18 AM (in response to softwater)

    Softwater, it is not that simple.

     

    a) Apple most likely does not own all the components in Mac OS X.  They most likely have some licensed technology which they cannot open source without violating their licenses.  The legal headache in trying to either get approval to release that code, or to scrub it from the sources is a real pain (can you say lawyers ).

     

    b) Once the sources are out there for the GUI, there is nothing to stop the code from being ported to non-Apple hardware.  Now we are back to loosing hardware sales to inexpensive 3rd party hardware.   Apple being a hardware company does not want to write software to sell other people's hardware.

     

    c) Apple support, Genius bars, these forums, etc... will get questions and complaints about open source X SO caM distributions.  Apple is not getting income from the open source release, but they are paying a cost in employee time diagnosing problems up to the point where the customer tells them they are running the open source version, it is running on 3rd party hardware, with maybe some marginal graphics card, etc..., and/or the customer doesn't even know because they purchased the system from someone else without knowing the details.

     

    d) Good will is lost when users running open source cannot run the latest features, latest apps (missing APIs in old OS), 3rd party hardware is not up to spec, open source drivers are flaky, and when customers find that Apple will not support them.

     

    Open sourcing older Mac OS X versions is not in Apple's best interests.

  • rccharles Level 5 Level 5 (5,150 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 19, 2013 10:35 AM (in response to BobHarris)

    Those wanting to run Darwin -- the open source component of OS X, here is a download.

    http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/download.php

     

    More downloads:

    google: darwin download

     

    Robert

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 20, 2013 4:59 AM (in response to BobHarris)

    @Bob and @Frank

     

    I think Bob's point a) is a practical concern, and I accept that from Apple's POV, 'losing control of the apple experience' is also so hard-grained into the company's DNA that the very notion of open sourcing Snow Leopard would never make it out of the 'looney ideas' drawer.

     

    That said and for the sake of the argument, I don't buy any of the 'confusion' objections made above. There's plenty of examples of how open source products establish a fixed identity (largely through the same market pressures as commercial ware). The only counter-example I can think of is the LibreOffice/OpenOffice confusion, but even that is getting clearer as the two distinguish their brands over time.

     

    As for Apple having to worry about providing free support, that's a non-argument, too. They have no problem in telling customers when their proprietary products are not supported. They are hardly going to feel obliged to support an open source product or feel shy at making that clear to customers. Hardware that had non-proprietary software installed could easily be exempt then just as it is now. Apple allowing SL to go open source need not imply that they will support it. 

     

    But, as another poster says, this is chewing the cud (didn't i say 'since we are shooting the breeze'?), it's really just something I'd love to see. It would (I believe) endear Apple to a whole different set of users, have reputational pay offs, and could turn into a source of revenue throug app and indirect hardware sales. 

     

    OK OK! Back to reality. We've all got work to do .

  • Kaurer Calculating status...
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    May 4, 2013 7:24 AM (in response to Jonathan Andrew Upton)

    I like OS X, but not the Apple hardware, their prices seem an insult!

  • twtwtw Level 5 Level 5 (4,580 points)
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    May 4, 2013 7:45 AM (in response to Kaurer)

    Kaurer wrote:

     

    I like OS X, but not the Apple hardware, their prices seem an insult!

     

    Ah, the Walmart fake-out strikes again.  People get lured in by the low price, but end up spending more in the long run because they have to repair or replace things more frequently. 

     

    oh well...

  • Kaurer Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    May 4, 2013 12:15 PM (in response to twtwtw)

    Apple's hardware is not as good as it looks. It is also a closed system and expensive.

     

    I prefer to buy the components separately, and install on it OS X, paying your license of course.

     

    I don't want a Macbook Pro, or iMac, etc.. I just want to use OS X and freely choose the components for me.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)
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    May 4, 2013 7:12 PM (in response to Kaurer)

    Kaurer wrote:

    I prefer to buy the components separately, and install on it OS X, paying your license of course.

     

     

     

    There is no licence for OS X that allows you to do that. Any use of OS X on non-Apple hardware is illegal.

  • twtwtw Level 5 Level 5 (4,580 points)
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    May 4, 2013 7:20 PM (in response to softwater)

    He knows that.  He's annoyed because he can't do what he wants to do.  To which I can only say: Welcome to the human condition.

     

     

    Kuarer, this is a user forum, not an apple contact zone.  You'll have to go through Apple's normal feedback routine.

  • William Kucharski Level 6 Level 6 (14,405 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 4:47 AM (in response to Kaurer)

    Kaurer wrote:

     

    Apple's hardware is not as good as it looks. It is also a closed system and expensive.

     

    Ah, but it's not expensive.

     

    Too many compare say "PC to PC" but don't load the build-your-own PC up with all the same hardware features built into Macs.

  • WillShoe Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 6, 2013 2:14 AM (in response to Jonathan Andrew Upton)

    Just to point a couple things out.. When Apple licensed their OS for third party they did it on a downswing where apple was already heading towards bankruptcy.  This was done as a last effort to try to bring them back from a downward spiral.  Steve Jobs was a paranoid individual always worried about who was going to steal from him (while he stole just as much from others, hence the Re-inventor not the innovator) not to mention too many Drugs can make anyone paranoid as well.  The release of the OS was what people wanted but apple never really gives the customer what they want so Jobs needed to blame something for the companies near downfall instead of the reality of competition.  Commodore (not just Microsoft) was hurting them too where Hollywood was abandoning the Mac for the Amiga for video production and animation (Where Lightwave originated).  It had lost its cutting edge.  I grew up around the Apple and Atari Days and was one of the fortunate kids to have an Apple II+ and Atari 400 Computer and back then to be able to meet Steve Jobs and the Woz back then.  Granted I was always comfortable talking to Woz.  Jobs was just a salesman to me and not very interesting to talk too.  I am the original Apple fanboy during Apples heyday.

     

    Still have my Apple IIGS (loaded, 5meg ram, reactive micro ssd, Applied Engineering Audio animator, transwarp, etc) mint condition.  This was the last of Apples open architecture days that promoted Hardware and software development but once Apple went closed architecture they lost that edge of having the most software and the most choices which allowed Microsoft and the Clones to Dominate and catchup.  My first Mac was very disappointing only having a Dozen software packages to choose from While the whole Apple II series had thousands to choose from.  The Mac in reality was Apples biggest mistake and ended up losing market share to Atari, IBM, Commodore, and so on. Apple itself created a rift between its Apple II users and Mac users and made many attempts to get them to crossover to Mac by even having an optional add-ons card that provided apple IIe software comparability (which ****** off AppleIIGS users of course) so all they did was keep pushing more people away instead.

     

    Keep in Mind Apple is repeating history that is currently causing its Market Share Loss all over again where at one point they were on the top.. more sales more apps (just like the Apple II days) Until others come along with faster hardware, more ram, expandability, more open in nature, giving people what they want instead of Apple giving what they think people need. Microsoft has started doing what I expected Apple to do first but never happened.  Winnows 8 on phone, on Pad, on Tablet, on Laptop, on PC Tower, Buy app once works on all of the above... still supporting flash too and now has gained almost 4% market share on its phones from 1% in 6 months.  Now Xbox One with Windows App support too? who knows.

     

    So as Far as the Apple OS being able to install on PC Legally, now is not the time for them to do so because then they would for sure be repeating history on a downward spiral again.  If they were going to do it, a year ago would have been the sweet spot to do so but now it would be a serious gamble at this point and I fear it is too late.

     

    Here is just a little quote for the Naive out there.. Apple says Open your mind and join the Close Minded Club. Don't make that same mistake I did early in life as others have and still do today.  Learn to try different things become more diverisifed and not get stuck in and Apple Only Club.

     

    Example: If I just interviewed 3 people for an IT position... One with Apple only experience, the second one with PC (Microsoft Only Experience), and  the third one with Microsoft and Apple experience.  Who would I pick for the Job?  My experience (and mistake) of hiring some people with Apple only experience is that most of them had already reached a brainwashed stage and were unwilling to work in a diversifed environment quoting Apple can do this apple can do that better unwilling to learn different and were also the least productive.  I even gave a choice to one individual as a test that I would get them an Imac with all the software they need to do the same job plus they would take a pay cut in order for me too afford the list She gave me. Next thing you know she sais I heard Windows 7 was better than Vista, and I said your correct but your getting Windows 8 though... next thing you know a few months later She now has an Ipad and a Microsoft Surface Pro and likes them both.  Now She only wished she could run her desktop Apps from her Mac on her Ipad.  Hint Hint Apple there's a customer who wants and Ipad that can run her desktop apps.  Like that's going to happen... Apple copy from Microsoft yeah right...

     

    Anyway's sorry for the extra rambling... I would like to see OSX running on PC Legally but I doubt it will ever happen because Apple itself is just as capable at being Naive, but in the meantime I keep running it in my Virtual machine will all my other Emulators, Amiga, C64, AppleIIGS, Atari, Linux Mint, and so on...

     

    So basically get a Mac new or used or virtual machine it if you cant afford it if you want to diversify.  Also go for the Mac Pro used if possible and upgrade it yourself, max out the memory, SSD, and so on.  I have done a few of them to save people alot of money and boost the perfomance as well.  Keep in mind its still Intel parts many are the same as what Dell uses... I did Kingston HyperX Memory on a Mac Pro and boosted the Macs performance almost 20% plus ended of fixing the random crashes the customer had during final cut exporting.  Probably due to the cheap Hynix memory that Dell and Apple use.

     

    P.S. and Yes I have built a Dual Xeon 3ghz 12core Tower with Triple Head 27inch displays, 64 gig high performance Ram, Dual 256gig SSD in Raid O with 4 WD RE4 2TB drives in Raid 5 running Windows 8, Dual SLI Geforce 680 4g video and Adobe Creative Cloud and for the Price of one Mac Pro Tower with low minimum specs and still saved a ton of money. This system cost me $3400 to build  And the mac did not include the 3 monitors.  come on 64gig of ram $1950 to add to a Mac Pro? Really? and Hynix...Bleh the cheapest ram in the industry period. I guess it goes along with a famous Jobs Quote "I am creating a work of art" and Art can be expensive folks.

     

    Cheers...

  • Ziatron Level 4 Level 4 (3,255 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 23, 2013 7:56 PM (in response to MlchaelLAX)

    My gripe with Apple is that, in a day of near zero expense online-software distribution, Apple's failure to offer some of its legacy software for online sale (such as Leopard, OS 9, etc.) renders its availability on other channels to a more sound "fair use" argument.

     

    This is part of the tragedy of downloaded software. Many people collect and sometimes still use older computers for various reasons. Including as a hobby.

     

    Those days are now dying. Software is now sold to you, and only to you. Previously, I could sell an old computer and include all of the software on disk I have purchased. Today, if I sell my Macintosh I must remove most of the software I have downloaded.

     

    The person I sell my computer to may not be able to purchase that software. It may be discontinued and completely unavailable.

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