8 Replies Latest reply: Feb 21, 2013 12:23 PM by romad
romad Level 3 Level 3 (590 points)

Several months ago, Apple said that it was getting out of the Java business and that we would have to get it direct from Sun. In addition, Apple removed Java via an update. They have done this at least twice now and each time I have to go back to Sun to get Java reinstalled. Today, Software Update told me that Apple had released ANOTHER JAVA update! Upon on reading about it, it says the same thing as the previous updates: it will disable Java. So:

 

1. Apple says they will NOT be updating Java and has disabled their version in Mac OS 10.x

2. Apple says if we need Java, to get it direct from Sun.

3. Apple CONTINUES to issue Java updates in contravention of their earlier statements that they would not due so.

4. Subsequent Apple Java updates disable the Sun version of Java that Apple has said for us to use.

 

Because Apple so schizophrenic on this and keeps reversing themselves, I'm confused. Is Apple still updating their version of Java or not? If Apple wants us to use Sun's Java, why do they keep disabling it?

 

I've decided to mark the latest and ALL future Apple Java updates to be ignored until Apple can get it's head out and it's act together

  • 1. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    Kappy Level 10 Level 10 (226,765 points)

    I think you have some incorrect information. Apple is shifting Java updates to Oracle who will produce new versions of Java.

     

    Apple is issuing Java updates for versions that Apple has produced in order to plug new Java exploits as they occur, but they will not produce any new Java version after 1.6 because those will come from Oracle.

     

    There is no contravention of earlier statements.

     

    Both Apple's and Oracle's versions disable the other's version.

     

    The only one schizoid here is, I believe, your understanding. Apple's act is together. The general nature of Java makes it subject to exploits that are potentially dangerous. If you don't need or use Java you should not install either version. If you wish to move beyond Apple's Java 1.6 version then you need to install Oracle's Java 1.7. It's all quite simple and logical.

  • 2. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    varjak paw Level 10 Level 10 (169,765 points)

    To add to what Kappy said:

     

    For Mac OS X 10.6, Apple included their own version of Java 1.6.x, and continues to update it as necessary for security.

     

    For Mac OS X 10.7 and 10.8, Apple did not include their own version of Java. Java for those systems comes from Oracle who is responslbe for any updates.

     

    Apple does in their updates have a patch that disables Java in Safari as a precaution since prior to these issues Java was enabled by default and hence opened up a serious security hole since some of the exploits only require that a user visit a compromised web site. Perhaps it's this patch, which works on all three versions of OS X, that's confusing you as to Apple's stance on Java.

     

    I hope this information along with what Kappy said clears matters up.


    Regards.

  • 3. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    romad Level 3 Level 3 (590 points)

    OK, if I understand your posts, since I have Mac OS 10.7 (Lion) installed, I should not have, or ever had, any APPLE Java installed, nor can any APPLE Java be installed, correct?

     

    Then why does Mac OS 10.7's built-in Software Update keep telling me to install these Java updates from Apple? Or are these Java updates that are coming through the built-in Software Update, really from Oracle but distributed via Software Update?

     

    Does the Safari "patch" disable the Java from Sun/Oracle which Apple said to install as a replacement for Apple Java? Is it because I have Safari installed that Software Update keeps telling me to install these updates/patches? If so, then would deleting Safari stop such notifications (since I don't use Safari anyway)? BTW, the "disabling patch" WAS installed months ago.

  • 4. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    Kappy Level 10 Level 10 (226,765 points)

    OK, if I understand your posts, since I have Mac OS 10.7 (Lion) installed, I should not have, or ever had, any APPLE Java installed, nor can any APPLE Java be installed, correct?

    Incorrect.

  • 5. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    varjak paw Level 10 Level 10 (169,765 points)

    Sorry, apparently what I said was incomplete and hence confusing. Apple did not preinstall Java in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion. They did offer an optional install, but I believe now are pushing people to Oracle, though I'm not certain. If you did the optional Java installation from Apple, which is Java 1.6.x, then Apple will provide updates, and also has the patch which disables Java in the Safari browser.

     

    Apple does not offer their own version of Java for OS X 10.8.

     

    I hope that's more clear.

     

    Regards.

  • 6. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    romad Level 3 Level 3 (590 points)

    Thanks that is much more clear AND HELPFUL than the other responder. I've done a Spotlight search of my Internal Hard drive and the External drive use for CCC and Time Machine. I found old Java packages and disc images in the back ups so I've deleted them. I also found a couple of old files that I want confirmation it is OK to delete: Java VisualVM.app, and JavaCompiling.plist  Everything else Java related is from 2013 so it should be Oracle's stuff correct?

     

    I didn't find anything that said "Java 1.6.x" in the search, so I'm guessing they were already removed. Now with all these old files removed from the backups, do you think Software Update will stop telling me I have "new" Java updates? Or will it still do so as long as I have Safari anywhere on my drives?

  • 7. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    varjak paw Level 10 Level 10 (169,765 points)

    There are instructions here on removing Java from 10.7:

     

    http://www.bluevariant.com/2012/04/uninstall-java-from-mac-os-x-10-7-lion/

     

    I cannot confirm their accuracy, nor do I know if removal will stop Software Update from offering further Java updates. Perhaps someone else here will have more insight.

     

    Regards.

  • 8. Re: Confused on Apple's Java stance.
    romad Level 3 Level 3 (590 points)

    Looked at the link but it looks like it won't stop SU from trying to install Apple's update patches. Guess I'll just have to keep telling SU to ignore all Java-related "updates". I'll also look at stripping Safari out.

     

    Any conclusions on those old Java VirtualVM and JavaCompiling files? Needed for Oracle Java 7?