10 Replies Latest reply: Mar 4, 2013 11:21 AM by Michael Boyd4
Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

Hello,

I am using Aperture 3 in OS 10.6.8.  The library has about 70k photos (managed) on an external FireWire drive.  There are 3 vaults, two on external USB 2 drives and one on our iMac 27".  I usually backup the vaults one at a time since the USBs are so slow.  But this time I did them all at once and Aperture has been working for about 72 hours.  The progress bar is about an inch from the end and not progressing but is "rippling" normally.  The two external vault drives cycle on and off on a regular basis.  Activity Monitor indicates Aperture is functioning.  My problem is that I am going to have to disconnect the library drive in the next few days.  If the update is not finished then is it OK to use the Terminal command recommended by leonieDF in the Aperture User Tips ("If Aperture is unresponsive, how to avoid force quitting?")  to quit Aperture?  I assume I would have to recreate the vaults (on FW drives this time!) but I am concerned about possible effects on the library.  Any thoughts or suggestions on this?  Many thanks!

Mike


Aperture 3
  • 1. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Frank Caggiano Level 7 Level 7 (23,840 points)

    While it is never a good idea to force quit Aperture one of the safest times to do this is during a vault update operation. The reason being there is no real writing going on to the library.

     

    So if you must go ahead. As a precaution I would run the library repair on the library just to be safe. And of course the vault in the process of being written will most likely be toast. The other vaults that finished should be OK but you may want to do a restore from one just to be sure.

  • 2. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Hello Frank,

    Thanks for the quick response.  I plan to use the Terminal command tomorrow during a time when the external vault drives are not spinning.  Hopefully that will minimize the chance of vault file damage.  Disk Activity in Activity Monitor doesn't seem to change much whether or not the external drives are spinning so is it looking only at the Mac HD and the blips I see are just chatter between Mac HD and the CPU?  The activity indicators i mentioned in my first post are still going on after 95 hours.  Given the long time, is it likely that Aperture is hung?  One more question; if the vault files survive do you think they will be usable given the update did not go to completion?

    Thanks again.

    Mike

  • 3. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Frank Caggiano Level 7 Level 7 (23,840 points)

    95 hours seems excessive to me. I would force quit Aperture, do a library repair and then try and make a new vault.

     

    As vaults are only snapshots of the current state of the library nothing really will be lost by this.

     

    Once you have a new vault made you can investigate the current vaults to see if they are still useable, But if it was me I'd just make new ones to be on the safe side.

     

    regards

  • 4. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Hello Frank,

    Sorry about the delay but we have been on travel.  Using the Terminal command to quit worked.  I then repaired the library permissions.and database and imported some photos and the library seems OK.

    When I checked the vaults the one on the iMac had a red progress bar and the vault was only partially updated.  It turns out that I had made a copy of the library on the iMac in the past that I forgot about and the vault update ran out of disk space.  Could that have explained the 95 hours and no finish?

    I trashed the old library to clear disk space.  I then tried Remove & Delete on one of the external vault drives and discovered that Delete does just that - the vault was gone not moved to the iMac Trash as I was expecting (for some reason).  I then tried Remove & Delete on the other two vaults (one of which was the incomplete iMac vault).  It seemed that this was probably going to take longer than I had time for so I did another Terminal quit and repaired the library permissions and database.  Then I copied the library from its FW drive to the iMac so that we would have at least one backup copy when we left.  So I now have two vaults to get rid of, the incomplete iMac one and one on an external USB drive.  What is your recommendation for this, Remove & Delete or trashing from the Finder?  Finally a side question.  Delete seems to be a much more complex operation than I realized; what does it do?

    I hope this is the last of my question and I appreciate your time and patience.

    Mike

  • 5. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Frank Caggiano Level 7 Level 7 (23,840 points)

    I would just go ahead and delete the  vaults in Finder with Aperture CLOSED. Then start Aperture and remove the vaults in Aperture.

     

    When a disk that is being used gets full it is hard to predict what behavior you will see and it might be different each time it happens.  So it is possible that the symptoms you had might have been caused by running out of disk space, really no way to say for certain. What you can say is that running out of or low of disk space is a condition you really want to avoid.

     

     

    The vault like the library is really a folder containing lots of folders and files so deleting it is not as simple a task as deleting a single file. However when I go to remove a vault in Aperture I get the following dialog

     

    Screen Shot 2013-02-26 at 22.00.32 .png

    Which shows both Remove and Remove and Delete options. If I select just Remove the vault is removed from Aperture but remains on the disk. Did you not see the same thing?

     

    Anyway given all you've been through you're doing pretty good. You have your library intact and a backup of it. I'd just go ahead and delete the vaults make sure you have enough room on the disk and then create new vaults. You should be good to go after that,

     

    good luck

     

    regards

  • 6. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Hello Frank,

    Thanks for the update.  But, I regret to say things have suddenly gotten significantly worse - Aperture will no longer import photos.  Here is the situation:  Since we don't have access to our iMac we are using our MacBook Pro with the library FW drive which we have done many times without problems.  Both Macs are running the same OSX and Aperture versions.

    Yesterday we imported and reviewed a total of about 600 photos from my wife's and my camera cards without any problems.  Today I trashed the vault that remained on the one USB drive (the other one had been deleted in Aperture)  Aperture was not running and I did not empty Trash.  Then I launched Aperture and removed that vault with the dialog box you included.  I did not do anything with the incomplete iMac vault so since it doesn't "belong" to the MBP.

    When I tried to import today's photos (only a couple of dozen) from either of our cards Aperture displays the import screen and says it is importing assets and the gear is spinning but no thumbnails appear after 20 minutes (usually they start in about 10-15 seconds max).  If I cancel the import, eject the cards in Finder and relaunch Aperture with no card attached to the Mac, the import screen still appears trying to import from a card that isn't there.

    I have restarted the Mac, repaired its permissions, run disk verify on the Mac & FW drives (both passed), repaired Aperture permissions, and repaired the Aperture database but no change.  I have not rebuilt the Aperture database or removed the suspect iMac vault as indicated above.  I think I need more guidance before proceeding with these or other possible options.

    Once again, many thanks!

    Mike

  • 7. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Frank,

    Here is some fresh new info that may help. I tried to get it to you earlier but Verizon is not cooperating. I decided to try to import today's photos into the library I keep on the MBP to play/learn with.  Even though I quit the FW library, ejected and disconnected it, when I launch the MBP library with no card inserted, Aperture still tries to import from the nonexistent card. I am guessing this indicates a problem in Aperture itself.

    Mike

  • 8. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Hello Frank,

    Some positive news for a change.  The only thing I could think of that is common to two libraries on separate drives to two Macs running separate Aperture installations is camera cards.  I did a low level format on two blank cards, put them in our cameras, shot a few images and imported them into both the library on the external FW drive and the one the on the MBP hard drive. There were no problems!  This evening I imported about 200 images we shot today and again Aperture behaved normally with either library.  I spot checked some metadata and made a few adjustments without problems.  When I tried again with the old cards on the MBP library the weird behavior in my last post returned.  I did not try this with the FW drive library.  The only way to get Aperture to behave again was to restart the MBP, quitting and relaunching Aperture did not correct the problem.  Either one or both (seems very unlikely) of the cards is corrupted even though they seemed to function normally in the cameras.

    So, I guess I am now left with the following questions:  Do you think Aperture and these libraries are now safe to use?  Would you do any of Aperture's built in repair/rebuild routines?  Can I safely remove the old incomplete iMac vault that's on the FW drive from the MBP? Finally, should I pitch the old cards or format and reuse - I lean toward pitching them.

    Again, many thanks!

    Mike

  • 9. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Frank Caggiano Level 7 Level 7 (23,840 points)

    Not sure what else to advise, you've been through some rough times.

     

    The advice in my last post still holds. Make sure the repair runs clean and redo the vaults and make sure you have enough free disk space.

     

    Also make sure that the original images from the camera are backed up outside of Aperture in addition to them being backed up via the vault. This way should the worst happen you will still have the originals.

     

    Can't say why the old cards are causing the problems you see with them. What happens if you format one or both of the cards in your camera, do they still cause probelms?

     

    good luck

     

    regards

  • 10. Re: Quitting Aperture During Vault Update
    Michael Boyd4 Level 2 Level 2 (165 points)

    Hello again Frank,

     

    I copied the image files from both suspect cards to a hard drive and opend a few in Preview with no problems.  I formatted both cards, took a few shots on each and imported them into my MBP Aperture library (which choked on the cards before reformatting), checked metadata and did some quick adjustments and everything worked - formatting did the trick.  I will continue to use the MBP library until we return and then follow your advice with the main FW drive library and new vaults.  Once that is squared away I will merge the MPB library into the FW library, do a library repair and update the new vaults.

     

    Two more questions.  Is it advisable to export the entire library to another drive as another backup?  Is regular library repair advisable even if there are no apparent problems?

     

    Over the years I have found the help provided in the Apple Discussion groups to be very helpful and once again I greatly appreciate your help. It not only solved my problem but I also learned a lot!

     

    Mike