1 2 Previous Next 26 Replies Latest reply: Mar 15, 2013 12:48 PM by Crazyhorsestudios
Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Anyone know why I am getting delays or latency when recording using external MIDI synths ? I've tried adjusting I/O buffers, using low latency mode. Not sure I am looking in the right place but I've never heard of latency effecting MIDI recordings? Can anyone suggest anything? BTW aim using Logic Pro 8, w/Digi 002R/Rosetta 800 and a lot of external rackmount synths.


Logic Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
  • 1. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    First of all, the System I/O buffer and Low-Latency mode affect only live input audio and the response time of software instruments audio output. Also, Low-Latency mode is a specialized function that temporarily removes plugins which ADD latency, might want to read up on L-L-M.

     

    Ok, the questions are:

     

    1. Is it latency? Are the external synths responding with an audible lag to keyboard input.

     

    2. Or.... is the recorded MIDI offset from where it should be?

     

    3. Last but not least, how are you monitoring the external synths?

     

    (p.s. I still have a rack of external synths as well)

  • 2. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    Might want to list your MIDI interface, is it the Digi 002r?

  • 3. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    1. Is it latency? Are the external synths responding with an audible lag to keyboard input.

     

    Not a keyboard lag. The controller plays the external synths fine. It's just when I try to record there a problem. All the notes don't get recorded.

     

    2. Or.... it the recorded MIDI offset from where it should be?

     

    I don't think I have the MIDI offset. I new to Logic but not new to sequencers. ;) DP & Pro Tools guy.

     

    3. Last but not least, how are you monitoring the external synths?

     

    Monitoring the synths via line mixer to my Prosonus central station

     

    Forgot to mention all rackmount synths are connected via 3 MTPAV's

  • 4. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    You're saying that this setup (3 MTPAV's) works perfectly well in DP and  Protools?

     

    Your current operating system?   tagline says Tiger 10.4.11, is that correct?

  • 5. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yes works fine in DP & PT on Tiger 10.4.11

  • 6. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    This is a tough problem as there are so many variables... Is Logic at the latest version, for L8 that's 8.02. Are you using any of internal Protools/Logic connections such as DAE or Direct TDM?

     

    What are your Preferences/Audio settings Current Audio Device  I/O Buffer setting.

     

    I am not sure how well Logic ever played with MTPAVs, for one thing, Logic merges all Incoming MIDI Inputs and you have a lot of them. It could be a matter of setting up Environment Objects for each of your synths and assigning a specific interface and active MIDI channel for each synth. 

     

    Sorry, I also have to ask if this is a legit copy of L8 as the cracked versions exhibited several problems, there's no use troubleshooting if it's one of those.

  • 7. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    This is a tough problem as there are so many variables... Is Logic at the latest version, for L8 that's 8.02. Are you using any of internal Protools/Logic connections such as DAE or Direct TDM?

     

    I don't have 8.02 installed just what came in the box 8.0. Yes I am using the DAE Engine as it activates because I am playing audio through the Digi002R.

     

    What are your Preferences/Audio settings Current Audio Device  I/O Buffer setting.

     

    It's currently set to 256 but I have tried 128. It was set by default to 512.  I have 16GB my G5 Quad.

     

    I am not sure how well Logic ever played with MTPAVs, for one thing, Logic merges all Incoming MIDI Inputs and you have a lot of them. It could be a matter of setting up Environment Objects for each of your synths and assigning a specific interface and active MIDI channel for each synth.

     

    That may be it. But I have to believe I am not the only one using MTPAVs as they are extremely popular. They all can't be using Unitors? They aren't being sold anymore.  However I did have Logic Pro 8 running fine on my old DAW with a MOTU 828 & K2500xs & don't recall having many problems sequencing. But I really didn't use it all that much.

     

    Sorry, I also have to ask if this is a legit copy of L8 as the cracked versions exhibited several problems, there's no use troubleshooting if it's one of those.

     

    Completely legal I have the box any everything. I wouldn't even know would you even get a cracked version. Too problems taking me away from music to add bootleg software to the mix.

  • 8. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    Crazyhorsestudios wrote:

     

     

    I don't have 8.02 installed just what came in the box 8.0. Yes I am using the DAE Engine as it activates because I am playing audio through the Digi002R.

     

    That may be it. But I have to believe I am not the only one using MTPAVs as they are extremely popular. They all can't be using Unitors?

     

    Completely legal I have the box any everything. I wouldn't even know would you even get a cracked version. Too problems taking me away from music to add bootleg software to the mix.

     

    You should be able to upgrade to 8.02 via Software Update or in Apple's download section. The initial release of Logic 8 was terribly buggy.

     

    Choose an external MIDI track. In the "Inspector" on the left hand side of the screen you will see the Port: designation. Do all of the MTP's show up there, whatever you do don't set it to ALL. You should be able to choose the correct MTP and underneath that, the channel.

     

    You might try disabling DAE and see if the problem persists.

     

    Here's another idea. Are you using MIDI Clock Sync on any of your external synths.

     

    Go to Settings/Synchronization/MIDI Tab

     

    If you're not using MIDI clock sync.. set all "Destinations" to off and then disable every checkbox, same for MTC and MMC.

     

    If you are using MIDI clock sync activate the Send MIDI Clock checkbox and select only a single MTPav as the destination.

     

    Remember, Settings are on a per song basis, Preferences are Global.

     

    Thanks for answering the bootleg question, lately there's been quite a bit of that around here.. these are user forums and it makes it difficult to try and help people when they're using old dodgy version of plugins and programs they shouldn't have in the first place.

     

    p.s. you aren't using rewire for anything, are you?

  • 9. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    BTW: Thanks for hanging in here on this problem. I really appreciate it. Working through these sort of things take you soooo far from music it's frustrating.

     

    Since we last talked I:

     

    - Upgraded to 8.02 - problem still persists

    - Tried choosing one of the MTP's in the Port designation from the Inspector made sure I had the channel set to the channel I was transmitting "1"

    - Tried disabling DAE

    - Not using rewire currently but I do have and use Reason and other apps that use rewire

    - Tried the turning off the MIDI clock sync Destinations 

     

    An interesting thing I see is that regardless which external instrument I choose on any of the 3 MTPAV's they all seem be receiving MIDI signals when I attempt to record. I see all 8 channels light up as I try to record a MIDI performance and notes get cut out, stuck notes etc. However when switching over to Digital Performer 4.6 or Pro Tools I have no problems recording using any of the external rackmount Synths.

     

    I also purchased Logic Pro 9 and tried using it with my laptop and get the same problem. I talked to the Apple tech support on this and they had no clue. We tried everything from using low latency mode to turing all gear off including the Digi002R to try and isloate the issue but recording Soft Synths seemed to work relatively well so it's definately an issue between using MTPAV's & External Synths with Logic as I don't have any problems with any other sequencer. You mentioned something earlier that may be a clue. Logic merges all of the incoming MIDI data.... I wonder if this is the problem? In any event I growing weary on wether I'll ever get this fixed with MTPAV's . Don't want to abandon Logic but the sole reason I wanted to move to it was because editing and sequencing MIDI was supposed to be much better than DP, Cubase or Pro Tools but after spending soooo much time on it not sure I agree. This should not be such a complicated task to accomplish. I am just trying to sequence using external synths. Been doing it for years with other sequencers. I just don't get why it's so complicated in Logic.

  • 10. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    What do you show in the Inspector when you click on  Ports: ?

    Do you show all thre MTPs?

     

    LogicScrn.jpg

  • 11. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yes they do see below

  • 12. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Crazyhorsestudios Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Sorry Here's the image. Thought I could copy and paste didn't realize I had to load/import it.

    Picture 2.png

  • 13. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,640 points)

    This will probably take some Environment work.

     

    Head over to Logic Pro Help and post your original question, (in the Forums)

     

    http://www.logicprohelp.com/

  • 14. Re: External MIDI Recording Delays
    The Art Of Sound Level 5 Level 5 (6,535 points)

    Heh.. Yes, that looks like a job for someone like Ski,....

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