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Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

65223 Views 888 Replies Latest reply: Mar 31, 2014 1:50 PM by The Art Of Sound RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (335 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 11:46 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)

    The Art Of Sound wrote:

     

    Which Ableton have finally confirmed as a long standing bug and hopefully will be fixed in the next update

    Problem #1 with Apple. Complete refusal to publicly acknowledge issue and no ETA on fixes or even announcements of them.

     

     

    In every case bar the last one, installing OS X on an ext drive along with just the basic Logic installation and nothing else, proved the most sucessful way to troubleshoot.. and in every case resiolved the issue. .. so then it was a matter of working out what was going on with their own OS X installation,in comparison to the 'clean ext installation.. that was the root cause of their problems and by a process of elimination with each one, the source of the problem was found. .. and corrected.

     

    Here, I am simply offering help to those who have this issue, by relating these fixes, one by one as I came across them in the hope that one of them might help someone here resolve their issue. Frankly I certainly don't care if someone 'threatens' to switch to another DAW and so on..I'm simply taking an hour or so a day out of my time..  to offer help.. because it doesn't seem like they are likely to get help from Apple directly on this matter... and as others here, such as Erik, Pancenter, CCT, Ski, Jim F and DSS to name but a few.... have helped me in the past.. I am simply doing my best to 'pass it forward'...

    If you managed to fix so many systems, I don't see why you havent just made a thread with a long list of possible solutions to the problem (not workarounds, solutions) and saved yourself the effort of giving the same reply repeatedly, or dealing with disgruntled customers like it's your Apple every time a problem arises. One of the primary reasons I don't roam the forums helping much anymore is that I feel some of the oldies have undue senses of entitlement.

     

    One further observation I will make (and this is bound to be unpopular but anyhow.........)

     

    ..is that has anyone else noticed how the top rated users here (and elsewhere on the other Logic related forums) either never had the problem... (The most common reason) or apparently know how to fix/avoid/work around it successfully...

    Case in point. I don't care that the top rated users here dont have that issue. I know CCT stuck to Snow Leopard and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the rest did too but that's simply impossible for some. Anyone can work around a problem but you spend your weeks making a habit of working around your DAW's failings and bugs and you soon realise that the great workflow it offered is now shot to ****. I keep subscribed to this thread becasue I am waiting for a fix so I can actually start using a new Mac Pro, and with Fredo and MadDog still facing issues I'm still waiting. Frankly I think some of the 'top rated' are employees anyway so would have recieved tip-offs of these problems and the others are probably Apple devoted enough to lie even if they had the problems. With a 8 year record like Pancenter's I would imagine that it's pretty hard to put your hands up admit that ole Mas'ser isn't being good to us right now. And for clarification, the metaphor is pointing to the fact that Apple have us by the short and curlies and has tied them to the back of his truck.

    Anyhow.... take this advice or leave it.. but as been said here repeatedly in the past, there is little point whining and complaining here to Apple, because this is the wrong place to do so and isn't really going to get you anywhere... If you want to be heard then contact Apple directly (I find a mix of phone calls and emails using the same Case ID number they issue you...in every form of communication..are actually the most effective methods!)  and keep on doing so.. over and over again until you get a resolution.... or failing that, switch to a different DAW... (and not just threaten to do so)

     

    There is many good reasons to whine here. I don't doubt that this is read at least occasionally by Apple, at the very least it has the most views and posts of the active threads on the Logic forums, the problem is you stop making noise and the world thinks that the issue is gone; It's evidently not. And personally I wouldn't be so insolent as to email/call Apple with naive self-importance thinking they will be able to send me a hotfix or something as they are the polar opposite of the small scale plug-in developers that I have previously got things like that from. They will at best, pass me on to a tech that's the hardware equivalent of a typist; trained how to use the tools that other people made for him and follow a set of predefined instructions which iI don't want to sit there and re-install OS X all day to find it doesnt change anything, I have more important things to do.

     

     

    Pancenter wrote:

     

    Methinks you care much more about complaining than composing.  if you really wanted to be heard by Apple you would call them and give them an earful... but I guess it's much safer to do it here where no one from Apple can reply. Complain like cowards, live like cowards.

     

    I see you have a whopping 5 points, you must have helped someone at one time, or maybe it was an accident.

     

    Have at it boys and girls. 

    Superiority by points, remembering that more than half the posers I have helped don't even understand how to award them. Great. Don't you feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing you have more points than everyone else? Warmer and fuzzier than you feel calling people cowards from thousands of miles away?

     

    <Edited By Host>

  • MonbazaTAIWAN Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 18, 2013 8:16 PM (in response to gen_)

    Just phone apple support Taiwan (thank you for the number)

    afer a long re-direct to departments,

    I was forwarded to Mr. Leung.

     

    He says I am the first one to call them for Logic Pro problems within the Chinese speaking area!

     

    I am not happy at all....

     

    For this... I feel sorry for not pushing myself to make this call sooner.

     

    Of course he said he will seriously report this to software system departments.

     

    I told him to come to this forum for details.

     

    I am going to email Tim Cook now.

  • MonbazaTAIWAN Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 18, 2013 8:26 PM (in response to MonbazaTAIWAN)

    Dear Tim,

     

    I am a Logic Pro loyal user.

    For the past few months,

    I am experiencing lag problem of Logic Pro 9.1.8 under 10.8.

    No matter how I update to 10.8.2  or even 10.8.3 just a few days ago,

    I meet 'hanging' and 'freezing' when I use Logic Pro's built-in EQ plug-in.

    You can browse we are crying for help for over one year at the Apple Support Forum.

    I just phone Apple support Taiwan a few minutes ago.

    after a long re-directing to departments,
    I was forwarded to Mr. Leung.

    He says I am the first one to call them for Logic Pro problems within the Chinese speaking area!

    I am not happy at all....

    For this... I feel sorry for not pushing myself to make this call sooner.

    Of course he said he will seriously report this to software system departments.

    But what I really want to know is...

    Does Apple care we loyal Logic Pro users?

    Our music business has been better and better using Logic Pro for the past few years.

    And We are now forced to downgrade to 10.6 for a Logic Pro 9.1.8.

    Do you have an answer to this?


    --

     

    Monbaza at Gmail

  • WindowsME Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 2:12 AM (in response to gen_)

    gen_ wrote:

     

    One of the primary reasons I don't roam the forums helping much anymore is that I feel some of the oldies have undue senses of entitlement.

     

    Wrong. It's not oldies but experienced. You trying to invalidate or diminish experienced user comments with that argument which btw I could say is childish, ;-). They have the experience of how a company should work because they probably have been here longer...

     


    gen_ wrote:

     

    Frankly I think some of the 'top rated' are employees anyway so would have recieved tip-offs of these problems

     

    I suppose so but have you ever asked yourself why is that? That's the difference between official and undercover. One is an official representative of the company which has to measure every word he says in public with a written proof. The other one like you for example, I cannot blame if something goes wrong, you were nice guys trying to help...

     

    gen_ wrote:

     

    They will at best, pass me on to a tech that's the hardware equivalent of a typist; trained how to use the tools that other people made for him and follow a set of predefined instructions which iI don't want to sit there and re-install OS X all day to find it doesnt change anything, I have more important things to do.

     

     

    True. That's the reason why I don't call anymore. (That again is experience...)

     

    gen_ wrote:

     

    Don't you feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing you have more points than everyone else?

     

     

    And that's precisely my point. Years ago the APPLE SUPPORT COMUNITIES didn' exist so APPLE was forced to have a dedicated support with Pro's at the end of the line.

    Some intelligent business man in order to save the stockholders money and possible legal problems found a legal way to relieve the company from its responsabilities: Apple Support Comunities.

     

    At first it looked wonderful. Now we can help each other, ask for wishlists and share ideas...Naive as we were...

    It turns (and this is experience too) that now we don't have support at all. Behind the phone line, and I quote you:

     

    "They will at best, pass me on to a tech that's the hardware equivalent of a typist; trained how to use the tools that other people made for him and follow a set of predefined instructions which iI don't want to sit there and re-install OS X all day to find it doesnt change anything"

     

    We relay on ourselves...We relay on guys like you. But you are not obliged to help me. You help me only if you feel compelled to do it...

    And which is worse, if you complain excesively they censurate you...

    Furthermore, most of people aren't aware of others problems because everybody is focused on its own forum.

     

    That's why I say that I respect when you help people, because I know, that you are doing that honestly. Maybe in some cases some ego thing behind but that's what in different things we always look for. Nothing wrong with it unless you become unsensible to other experiences or points of view...

    However, everytime you do that in here, you are preventing others to get mad and complain. To gather together in order to claim seriousness from the company. You are relieving Apple from its responsabilities. Think about it for a moment before feeling warm and fuzzy. With all your good intentions may be you are being used or part of the problem...

     

    As said before, I would agree with this idea if as a start we had at least ONE official Apple pro expert in every forum interacting with us. It is not going to solve all the problems but the fact that she/he represents Apple in public (not like cowards) would make the company to find concrete solutions before answers and not the opposite way...

  • CCTM Level 6 Level 6 (8,590 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 2:40 AM (in response to gen_)

    Hi

    gen_ wrote:

     

    I know CCT stuck to Snow Leopard

    Without wishing to get dragged into a flame war, this is not the case.

     

    Whilst I do still have a bootable Snow L installation which I do use occasionally, I have been running Lion for some considerable time, and have been running M Lion "in parallel" since it was released. Having built a "clean" M Lion OS installation some months ago, I have been running it most of the time, generally (not completely) without issue.

     

     

    CCT

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 10:56 AM (in response to gen_)

    Gen, have you tried 10.8.3 to see if it fixes the lag issue for you?

  • hypnotik Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 11:01 AM (in response to Mike Connelly)

    i did a fresh clean install with 10.8.3, the problem is still here, obvious with fxpansion Geist for instance.

    Anyaway something has changed with this OS release the Channel EQ analyzer is a bit better....the analyzer is laggy and the EQ GUI as well; but it doesn't prevent you to use normally logic.

     

    This can't be real.....who did the beta testing ? a student ?

  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 11:16 AM (in response to hypnotik)

    Years ago I would have said vote with your pocketbook/wallet by not purchasing Apple products but that doesn't fly today, Apple is a consumer powerhouse and the pro market accounts for very little profit in comparison with iphone/ipad hardware. However, Apple still likes to flaunt their Pro investment so it retains at least some glitz.

     

    <Edited By Host>

  • The Art Of Sound Level 5 Level 5 (5,690 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 11:15 AM (in response to gen_)

    gen_ wrote:

    Problem #1 with Apple. Complete refusal to publicly acknowledge issue and no ETA on fixes or even announcements of them.

     

     

    Well, after 2+ years.... Ableton finally admitted to the issue and that wasn't even in public... but in an email from their Support Dept.. (Thanks Nick!) so that's pretty much the same situation as with Apple...

     

    gen_ wrote:

     

    Frankly I think some of the 'top rated' are employees anyway so would have recieved tip-offs of these problems

    I'm certain Ski (iSchwartz) Pancenter, Erik, CTT, Jim, DSS and Bee Jay, to name but a few... would find your comment, bizarrely funny in fact! A little paranoia is a healthy thing but let's not get too carried away okay?

     

    With a 8 year record like Pancenter's I would imagine that it's pretty hard to put your hands up admit that ole Mas'ser isn't being good to us right now.

     

    LOL! I can hear Pancenter's teeth grinding from here.. at such an 'accusation'! You obviously haven't read many of his pasts where he absolutely slams Apple (and quite rightly so) for their attitude in regards to secrecy etc... for example,  towards users

     

    As for this community, it has a purpose but I competely agree with you and others.. that Apple need to also have either an official presence here (which they basically don't) or another forum where their presence is known and can be addressed... because here, we are all just users trying to help other users with, in essence, one hand tied behind our backs because none of us have any real info/insight into what the heck Apple is doing.... or why.. or when! For me, it's a cop out by Apple in many ways... taking the load off their own support dept at little cost in monetary terms  to themselves (with the exception of the running costs of the communities themselves..)

  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 19, 2013 1:43 PM (in response to The Art Of Sound)

    gen_ wrote:

     

    Frankly I think some of the 'top rated' are employees anyway so would have recieved tip-offs of these problems

     

    I'm a full time professional musician, 63 years old with a music degree in theory and composition, have played behind/with several Grammy winning artists and worked as a composer for PBS/NPR for almost 10 years.

    That's my story.  Except that I'm NOT and Apple fanboy. However, I am a Logic fan and not particularly happy with the Apple/Logic combination, I wish it was still cross platform as I'm more comfortable building a solid machine than having to purchase a Mac, especially the newer ones which use cheaper components.

    The single quad-core Mac Pro I have is over 3-years old now.

     

    As far as any of the top rated users being employees, if that's any indication of your mental health I'd think about seeing a doctor...... soon!

  • SmokenSound Level 1 Level 1 (20 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 20, 2013 1:19 AM (in response to Pancenter)

    After testing 10.8.3 on another drive i found that lag is pretty much like on 10.6.8 now. So i back up everything, and updated yesterday. So far so good, its lagging but like i said pretty much like 10.6.8) No play/stop problems, no knob problem, just graphical lags when lot of plugins visible.

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2013 9:32 AM (in response to Pancenter)

    Pancenter wrote:

     

    composer for PBS/NPR for almost 10 years.

     

    BJ Leiderman, is that you?

  • Pancenter Level 5 Level 5 (7,505 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2013 10:37 AM (in response to Mike Connelly)

    Ha! very funny!

     

    No, but I'm familiar with his work... Morning Edition, Car Talk...etc. I worked from 1988 - 2001 lots of documentaries, astronomy shows (analog synths you know). had a MIDI studio synced to tape in 1985 so I was in early. Hardware sequencers at the time, Yamaha/Roland gear, Oberheim Matrix 6r, you know what I'm talking about. Once sampling/sample playback started taking over and more people with more money (and way more gear) jumped on the scene it was less enjoyable, I went back to gigging. A lot of the people I worked with prior to the MIDI studio didn't want to hire me as they felt I'd crossed over to the dark side and taken gigs away from working musicians.

     

    At least most are posting an improvement with the lag problem. They must be flipping task priorities around.. the Mac has never had lightning graphics speed, all of the additional eye candy + Retina support seems to have taken it's toll.

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2013 11:45 AM (in response to Pancenter)

    Just had the lag as bad as it's ever been and here's what was going on with the music:

     

    At the point that the lag kicked in today I had 1 instance of Kontakt (Piano in Blue) and one audio track of me whistling.  I had just the one effect window open.  That's it.  I had removed all instances of Waves, upon the recommendation of the kind man from Apple who is helping me.  Upon opening the Channel EQ with Analyzer engaged it lagged for 20+ seconds.  Over and over.  Even with Channel EQ already opened, playing the track caused 20+ second lag.  I seem to be able to snap it out by reselecting the song from the Logic icon in the dock with Control held down.

     

    I noticed that the whistle track was being bussed to a AUX with Valhalla reverb (the only other 3rd party effect I'm using in this song.)  I removed the Valhalla and tried again, resulting in exactly the same lag behavior of 20+ second delay.

     

    There always seems to be a very short lag, as many other users have observed.

     

    This piece has 36 tracks, not especially huge.  Usually it's just a single instance of Piano in Blue played through Kontakt 5.

     

    Effects breakdown like so:

     

    10 - Valhalla Room reverb.

    5 - Space Designer. 

    27 - Channel EQ.

    6 - Overdrive.

    15 - Logic Compressor. 

    1 - Stereo Spread.

    1 - Adlimiter. 

     

    It also has 4 Kontakt 5 instruments, but most of the time it's just one that plays.  Several come in at the very end.

     

    Again, it's a very simple piece and the lag is QUITE BAD! 

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 Level 1 (30 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 21, 2013 11:50 AM (in response to Fredo Viola)

    Just removed all instances of Valhalla from the song, just to be sure.  Terrible lag still there. 

     

    BTW, the computer is a mid-2012 Mac Pro 2.4 Ghz 12-core with 28 GB of ram and an OWC SSD drive for root, with project and library files on a separte internal SATA drive.

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