Currently Being ModeratedMar 29, 2013 5:58 PM (in response to mittense)
15" LG display, 5 months old. Absolutley no problems with the display or the computer so far. No image retention at all. I do try to keep from closing the laptop when it is hot to avoid overheating the display. Not sure if it makes much of a difference. But the computer can get very hot at ''g' and 'h' keys. That said, this is, by far, the best computer I have ever owned.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 29, 2013 11:09 PM (in response to PedroWilsoni)
No not actually correct. Burn-in is different. Its image retention or Imange persistance and is actually a different problem than burn-in. It's not related generally to right or left side, at least that I've heard.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 29, 2013 11:11 PM (in response to 0hn0000)
I'm not sure where you got the impression that they would replace the whole computer. I think generally that only happens if you take it back with in the first 14 days or something.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 29, 2013 11:32 PM (in response to DomdiDom)
@DomdiDom. This hasn't been the actual fact at all. It seems that Apple has been replacing screens when the IR has been shown them. A few have had customer issues, but it seems to me, from most of what I've seen here, they all got eventually replaced. I'm sorry did you have a rMBP?
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 4:32 AM (in response to Barry Fisher)
I don't know which post of mine you're referring to but I assume my sarcasm about apple taking care of the IR for the customers.
If so, I don't know you can suggest otherwise. If you've subscribed to this thread then you've read what I've read. I've been reading for months I can tell anyone definitively that Apple is NOT TAKING CARE OF IT'S CUSTOMERS WITH IR in a consistent manner. Meaning, it seems to all depend on the "genius". Rather, they've created a (in my opinion also) "rigged" and unrealistic test to determine if the IR is beyond apple's satisfaction. There's countless posts by individuals about being turned away by these genius' and told IR is normal etc.
Regardless, Apple can delete all the posts they want, but when they're subpoenaed Apple won't dare to delete the truth. You never know who's kept all the posts that are emailed.
No, I don't own one, I however I feel almost as bad as people that bought one because I couldn't wait. I had to go out and buy a $2k Windows 8 Samsung series 9 (STAY AWAY) that turned out to be a hunk of junk IMO that's in the shop as I write this. Not only is Windows 8 the worst OS i've ever used since DOS but samsung TOTALLY got it wrong with how Windows 8 somehow integrates in some way with the bios and these things are bricking very easily. Anyway, long story short. I wanted a "working" rmbp, couldn't get one with a samsung screen so ended up not risking it and ended up in worse shape than if I had bought rmbp with IR. Ya, I blame Apple but I can hardly start a class action over this.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 8:59 AM (in response to DomdiDom)
I had no idea you went with Win 8 and a P.O.S. Samsung. I feel for you, that's a horibble combination. Samsung may make descent displays, SSD's, Memory and appliances but their computers really suck. They actually sent us a sample series 9 to test when I was gettings quotes for 5 new computers for my business. I must admit this surprised me as no other PC makers offered a sample for testing. The one they sent blue screened out of the box and couldn't even boot up, they fedexed another and it worked ok until we loaded photoshop and then it would crash (power off) every time we started a batch process. The first thing their tech support said is it was a windows 8 problem and nothing wrong with the computer. This was literally at the same time my contract photographer (who's file we were testing) was using his lower spec'd Sony with Win 8 to run the same batch processing file that crashed on the Samsung.... When I told Samy tech support this they ask if I could hold while they looked into it, I hung up after a 10 minute wait and returned the sample computer that day.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 9:13 AM (in response to Jajaba)
I envy you Jajaba, as you were able to return yours. I purchased at Christmas and this is my 3rd return. First time it bricked by simply trying to boot from an image I made. Anyway, on my 4th return I'm pretty sure Best Buy has a "lemon" clause that will allow me to exchange and this is part of why I'm still paying attention to this thread. I'm still interested and still tempted to get the rmbp. I have zero confidence in win 8. I would take a pc with win 7 but as I was told, because win 8 mixes with hardware, bios to be specific somehow, if I try and put a copy of win 7 on a win 8 system it will be buggy. So, what to do if/when I have to return my samsung series 9 back for a 4th time. I don't know.
What makes me crazy is, there's no computer at BB that has anything as nice as a "working" rmbp. Nicest screen by far if it doesn't have IR. Problem is, I'm understanding correctly, I have a better than 50/50 chance of getting an LG.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 9:28 AM (in response to DomdiDom)
Well we have 4 LG's and no problems with them whatsoever (all 2012 SJA1's). Also if you actually read the posts from those who have IR, but keep and continue to use their machines, it seems that in real world use it is not an issue unless you decide to use a dark grey backround screen. I'm not saying it's right or acceptable with the way the issue has been handled by Apple for some posters here. At the same time it also does not really seem to be a major issue in normal use. If they test for it they can make IR apprear but I have read very few posts that say the IR makes their MBPr unusable in any way unless they specifically try to force it to appear.
By the way, all of our machines are using a dark gray backround 80+% of the time in Adobe Lightroom or Photoshop....
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 10:22 AM (in response to Jajaba)
Must admit. I didn't notice it for 3 months, until I RDP'd to a machine with a blue background and noticed the email I was working in for several minutes was clearly visible. Unfortunately, once I noticed it, I could always see it. It wassnt such an issue before..
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 2:43 PM (in response to mittense)
Just left the Apple Store after having my 15" MBPr tested by the Genius. The test is very obviously rigged to pass because the background that displays after Showing the checkerboard pattern for three minutes is such a dark gray that it might as well be black in the bright Apple Store lighting. Let's use some common sense here. Of course the image persistence is not going to be noticeable on black background. The interesting thing is that the Genius didn't seem interested in having me show him my gray desktop background to demonstrate the problem. The really funny thing is that I went ahead and logged in and we could still see a very obvious checkerboard pattern on my gray desktop from the earlier test that had passed. At the end of the day the Genius still offered to replace the screen, but I thought it somewhat insulting that they run a test that is essentially rigged to pass.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 4:16 PM (in response to mittense)
Just bought a 2013 15inch Macbook Pro Retina in Arlington VA and hit the lotto.
ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6
Got a Samsung Display!!! I was so worried I'd get an LG. I am going to run system updates and then give the retention test a go. I'll report my findings.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 4:20 PM (in response to mittense)
I'm wondering if some of the delayed instances of IR might be associated with exposure to excessively high ambient temperatures. This can contribute to or cause a degradation in the LC medium, leading to image retention. (see http://www.business-sites.philips.com/shared/assets/3dsolutions/downloads/LCD_te chnology_and_image_retention_white_paper.pdf, which is referenced at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_persistence, although both are generic as to type of LCD)
The question was raised in this thread back in December, but I haven't seen any posts with data regarding high temperature exposure (if there were, sorry I missed them).
If anyone developed IR after a period of months [without IR], think back to a time where you might have inadvertanly allowed the rMBP to get excessivly hot (I mean, beyond maximum operating temps which are "warm" to the touch, and beyond the maximum recommended enviromental temperature of 113ºF/45ºC). A closed vehicle left in the sun on even a warm day could reach that, though if the machine were in a padded case, it would stay cooler than ambient for a while at least. I don't know at what temperature LC degration occurs, but certainly it's wise to try and at least remain within the manufacture's recommended temperature range.
If your machine did get exposed to high temperature and you subsequently started seeing IR, please post back with your observations. Thanks!
I'm not trying to hand wave away instances of IR. I'm genuinely interested in whether there's a relation to delayed degradation possibly caused by exposure to excessive temperatures resulting in IR. Especially, since my own rMBP (mid-2012, week 46, purchased mid Feb) currently has a perfect display (happens to be LG).
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 5:49 PM (in response to Logan Nolag)
If IR is Normal on IPS Screens Why Samsung IPS Screens has no IR issues at all?
Why They've replaced many LG screens with Samsungs if it was normal?
even 1 screen replacement due to IR issue request means Apple Accepted the issue with LG SJA1 screens.
some Genius "Geniuses" dont want to understand or accept the reality...
We should start peititon about this issue, I also have IR issues with my rmbp next to 4HDD/11/ error time to time, well we'll see If I am going to meet with a Geniune Genius or not
wish me Luck!
Currently Being ModeratedMar 30, 2013 8:19 PM (in response to Chuck Gould)
We have 4 LG MBPr and 2 Samy's at my company. My original LG machine is 5 months old and it has been used in 80+ degree ambient temps daily. This machine also gets 100% load on all 8 virtual cores for at least 2 hours daily with CPU temps averaging 90-100C for the duration. Our other newer MBPr's also are used extensively in 80+ ambient and when used outdoors with sunlight on the back of the display the front panel can heat up enough to be uncomfortable to touch, much warmer than when all cores are maxed out for hours. No signs of IR on any of the LG's (so far).
The article you provided the link for is from 2009 and from Philips who primarily makes large TV and commercial IPS display panels, they currently do not make super high density IPS panels for mobile devices. Different manufacturers use different L.C. mediums. As an example all our professional high color gamut (RGB) displays with CCFL backlighting actual tell you to let the display warm up at least 30 minutes before doing any color critical work and also to improve response time if being used for video editing. The CCFL backlighting gets downright hot at operating temps. Ironically all our RGB monitors from NEC, Eizo and Dell use LG IPS panels, and none of them show any signs IR.
While the info might be true for Phillips older displays I don't think it applies to current technology. In general IR is the inibility of certain crystals to return to an 'off' (or closed) state as quickly as other crystals, so those crystals appear as IR on screen which eventually fades away when the crystals finally 'recover'. Since the warmer L.C. medium improves response times (due to lower viscosity when warmer) it seems counterintuitive to think warmer temps equal increased IR. The article did say that the L.C. medium 'can break down' with too high of temps but gave no details. Apple and all other computer manufacturers are typical very cognizant of designing, specifying and testing all temperature 'critical' components to ensure there wont be any long term problems.
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