Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 6:18 AM (in response to bjiibj)
Absolutely agreed. I am glad there are good Apple CSR's who are still taking care of people out there..... but to put my issues in perspective:
Just imagine if you dropped it off and they told you they would replace it, no questions asked and curteously you left and they called you a few days later to pick it up as the repairs were done.... then when you went to pick it up they told you they had ran some more tests and decided that it was within spec. Have a nice day. Thanks for choosing Apple. Yes, It is an absolute shame that each location does not have the same level of service.
I have been a huge fan of Apple... recommending products to family and friends for years and years. It's the treatment I recieved as of late that makes me reconsider everything I told family and friends about their customer service. It's really very sad.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 10:16 AM (in response to mittense)
I have lost the Apple lottery unfortunately. I purchased my mbpr 15" in January 2013, and after less than 3 months I am now seeing image retention. Currently its just the outline of a modal window, and a slight background fill variation. I'm not seeing the contents of that window being retained.. yet. I am now convinced it's just a matter of time before it gets worse.
Today, I left my Calendar open for 30 minutes, to fill in my schedule for the next month. When I closed it, there was a lighter background over my grey desktop where my calendar had been. It took several minutes for it to disappear.
Still, I do admit, this is the best laptop I've ever owned. The response and performance are unparalleled for me. However, I am both a web developer and a teacher. I run presentations off this machine, and I need my screen to be perfect.
I was really excited when purchasing this laptop, and after reading these threads, especially the posts by people insisting that not all LG screens have image retention, I decided to take my chances. Now, I fear I'm in the screen replacement gamble like many others. I'm confident I will get it replaced, and I just hope the next screen I get won't have these issues. However, now my classes start in two days so I don't have time to change my screen. I guess I will have to wait for it to get even worse, and then have better chances of a replacement anyway.
I am not upset with Apple. I still think they make excellent machines. However, when I have a problem I want it fixed. Just like taking a new car into the shop when its under warranty. I don't want to argue, I just want you to fix it. I will post back here and let everyone know how my experience with Apple went on replacing my screen.
If I had to do it over again, I would.... HOWEVER, I would do exactly what people on this thread have recommended time and again: if I got an LG screen, I would return it within the 14 day window, and keep doing so until I got a Samsung screen. Now that I have this retention issue, I can see just how frustrating it is. Yep, I know that Samsung screens have their issues as well. Personally, while I don't have all the data, I believe that Samsung displays are experiencing far fewer issues than the LG's though. Wisdom is the ability to learn from other people's experiences... I need to remember that.
Here is my info:
Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 3:36 PM (in response to Jajaba)
I have the Early 2013 rMBP 15" with the second generation of the LG panel (LP154WT1-SJA2). No IR so far, but I get eye strain - burning from the display, mostly when looking at white backgrounds (Safari, etc).
My previous MBP 15" from 2007 uses a Samsung LED matte panel giving a more yellowish warmer white which is very relaxing. I also find the MBA 13" quite easy on the eyes.
At the moment I am trying various .icc profiles and there is some improvement. Also thinking of buying an i1 X-Rite Display Pro or a ColorMunki Display calibrator. From your experience:
1. Will a calibrator solution help in this situation?
2. Which is best for the Retina and compatible with NEC PA301W, EIZO SX2762, DELL U3014 or APPLE TBD27"?
3. Do the Samsung & LG panels on the rMBP have a different white level from factory and other picture quality differences resulting in different levels of eye strain?
P.S. On a side note, my case is creaking on the left side...!MACBOOK PRO (RETINA, 15-INCH,EARLY 2013), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.3)
Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 3:40 PM (in response to djv1967)
I can't recommend enough to get a calibrator. I find I get eye strain from uncalibrated displays as well. Especially Windows displays. At my work everyone uses Dell laptops and it hurts my eyes to look at them most times. I have an i1 Display Pro, and could not be happier. It will likely make your display appear warmer than factory.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 4:04 PM (in response to mittense)
In order to verify whether Apple has fixed the IR on the latest edition of the rMBP 15" I posted a Poll on MacRumors Forum:
Important Note: This is for owners of the Early 2013 model ONLY.
All votes & opinions are welcome.MACBOOK PRO (RETINA, 15-INCH,EARLY 2013), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.3), 2.8/16/SM768E/LP154WT1-SJA2
Currently Being ModeratedApr 9, 2013 10:09 PM (in response to djv1967)
Calibration will definately help your 'eyestrain' situation, you can calibrate the whitepoint to any value you choose. I concur with Millerrh512, the i1Display pro is what I use and highly recommend it. I am not sure which monitors the ColorMunki is compatible with but I'm sure Xrite has the info available on their site.
A note on the NEC PA301W, which is virtually identical to our PA271W (just 2560x1600 vs 2560x1440) and they both have the same series of LG IPS displays. If you have not purchased the NEC yet make sure to NOT order the one with the built in 'Spectra View II' calibration system (P/N PA301W-BK-SK), it comes with a re-labeled i1Display Pro sensor which is NOT usable to calibrate other displays. You can use the Xrite i1Display pro on the other displays you mentioned and for the NEC, but you will need to purchase the Spectra View II software from NEC ($99 I think) in order for it to work with the NEC301W. You will still save ~$150 with the PA301W (vs. the BK-SV version) even with the additional software cost and this way you'll be able to calibrate your other monitors with the i1Display Pro. I suggest checking prices at B&H Photo for the NEC, they had the best pricing when we got our 271W and best shipping costs (to Hawaii), and they even double boxed the NEC box for shipping which was a pleasant surprise.
As for the Samsung vs. LG MBPr's. Both our Samsungs were a 'warmer' whitepoint out of the box and when calibrated they were not able to get as close to the target 6500K (photo editing standard) whitepoint as the LG displays. IIRC our 4 LG's all were able to acheive 6500K +/- 10K while both Samsungs eneded up at ~6550K as the closest calibrated whitepoint (a barely noticeable difference even when viewed side by side). The max calibrated contrast was ~800:1 (Samy) vs. ~1000:1 (LG). If you are getting eyestrain with the LG display, try turning the brightness down (I know this sounds very obvious) but with the very high LG contrast ratio it is easy to view black text on white backround even at very low brightness levels. I just switched to the Apple factory 'color LCD' profile and can read the text fine here with brightness at the 3rd through 7th bar on the popup scale and I'm in a room with medium ambient lighting.
One thing to be aware of is that after calibration to 6500K you will swear the display looks too 'warm' or yellowish. Live with it for 2-3 days and then you'll swear all other non calibrated sRGB displays look harsh and 'blueish'
No idea on the creaking. None of our machines make any such noises.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 9:47 AM (in response to Jajaba)
Jajaba, first of all Thank you very much for the information.
Just to give you an idea of the problem, I included 3 photos taken from the iPad3, iPhone4 & iPhone4 with HDR. I am not sure if they show the truth, but you can give it a try. Both screens on full brightness with default LCD color profile.
I normally use the 2007 on 12/16 bars of brightness, but even on full no eye-strain. (Despite being LED, with noticeable PWM.)
As for the 2013 Retina (LED as well, but much improved PWM) any brightness level gives a burning in the eyes after a while. (Same with the new iMac, although the latest MBA 13" is acceptable - have not tried the latest MBP 15" hires-matte yet.)
It's like looking at the cool white spectrum of a fluorescent or led bulb which is used in garages and workshops. The older MBP is more like warm white, maybe not ideal, but very relaxing at least for my eyes.
I am 100% sure the CCFL based NEC PA or the EIZO SX series will be in another league. As for the DELL U3014 (LED & noticeable PWM flicker - http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u3014.htm) I can't be sure.
So the question is will I be able, with the help of the X-Rite i1 Display Pro, to sort of copy-paste the older MBP calibration to the Retina or at least be able to adjust it to a comfortable level?
Left=2013 rMBP 15" Right=2007 MBP 15" LED matte
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 9:55 AM (in response to Jajaba)
Could not agree more. The harshness in my opinion comes from the blue-ish tints so many displays have. One that is properly calibrated has a warmer tint that is much easier on the eyes.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 11:27 AM (in response to djv1967)
I would not suggest even trying to 'copy and paste' an ICC profile from one machine to another. The whole point of calibration is to adjust a specific display to a specific color profile. As you've read here there are many accounts of varying display whitepoints reported on the same MBPr model, from very cool / blue to very warm / yellow. If you load a profile from another machine it is just as likely to make things worse as it is to improve them, and it could really scew color accuracy. Unfortunately the pics you posted don't really show anything useful, you have to understand that the camera is adjusting for white balance of the reflected light off what your taking the picture of so no matter what it will never show the true 'white' colorpoint of the displays. That's why a calibration sensor is placed directly on the screen and measures the light being transmitted directly from the display.
The Xrite i1Display Pro will allow you to select any target whitepoint you want and calibrate the display as close as it is capable of getting to that target. So if the Standard 6500K is still to 'blue' for you you can choose a higher target for a warmer whitepoint. Another purpose of calibrating is to make sure all your displays are showing colors, contrast and brightness at the same levels (or as close as possible). If you wanted to match your 2007 display exactly on the MBPr the way to do it would be to 'profile' the 2007 display with the Xrite (measure it's color profile) and then use those results to create a custom calibration target for the MBPr. The results would then make the MBPr look as close as it's capable of getting to the 2007 display.
I would advise against having any Dell displays on your list of options. There are a lot of ongoing issues with their RGB monitor offerings. There are reports of the identical model numbers being shipped with multiple different LCD panels that can not be color matched to each other as well as terrible customer support recently. Not to mention they are being sold (becoming privately owned). With NEC, Eizo or LaCie you should avoid any of these type of issues.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 12:02 PM (in response to Jajaba)
That is exactly what I meant by copy-paste, but you said it with the correct terms, i.e. profile the 2007 and then create a custom calibration target for the rMBP. Sounds promising. I hope this solves my eye-strain problem or else I would have to compromise going for a MBA 13 or the latest MBP 15 with high-res matte. The only problem is that the latter is a BTO and it is impossible to source a demo on any store.
I agree with you regarding Dell. Lacie is only 24". So I am left with NEC PA (up to 30") or Eizo SX (up to 27"). From your experience would you place them on the same quality level?
Both brands also have some newer & cheaper models using LED, but I don't know if they are up to the high-end standard of the CCFL one's.
Thanks for helping me out.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 12:19 PM (in response to djv1967)
Both the NEC and Eizo are par with each other in my opinion. I have never actually seen the newer LED models so can't advise about them. We almost ordered the PA301W but decided on the PA271W due to the very significant cost savings for equal quality display. FWIW no one has complained that they want / need the taller aspect ratio of the 30". One item to be aware of is that the NEC and Eizo anti glare surface really make things look 'fuzzy' when viewing side by side with the MBPr display. I personally have been adjusting final sharpness for print output using the MBPr instead of the NEC and the opposite when adjusting for shadow detail due to the MBPr's very high contrast ratio which makes it difficult to see dark shadow details (at 80cd editing brightness levels)
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 1:35 PM (in response to djv1967)
Hey I forgot to mention that you can actually adjust the whitepoint on the MBPr without calibration equipment. It isn't necessarily accurate in changing the whitepoint to the true whitpoint value but it will allow you to adjust a warmer or cooler overall whitepoint.
Just choose Settings > Display > Color (top tab) > Calibrate > Expert Mode (check box) > then click continue until you get to 'Select a Target Whitepoint' > uncheck 'use native' and adjust the slider down from 6500 (for warmer whitepoint) until it's to your liking > continue and finish the process naming the new profile to save to the list.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 2:22 PM (in response to djv1967)
You may want to try a lower setting. Keep in mind the numbers on the slider are based on whatever default value Apple loaded as the 'generic' profile for all the MBPr's. In other words 6000K on your slider may actually be 6800K on your display. There is no way of telling without a sensor to measure the value. The standard for CMYK print publishing is 5000K which usually looks way to warm to most people for general viewing...
By the way, I apologize for any confusion in earlier posts. I think I implied that higher whitepoint temps equaled warmer colors. On displays it is the opposite. I am a photographer and use to White Balance settings on cameras where higher White Balance temps equal warmer photo colors which is the opposite of displays.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 10, 2013 3:59 PM (in response to Jajaba)
For such a smart guy I can't understand why you keep filling up this thread with of topic post information.
You are making it harder for people with the real issue to find relevant post that might help.
You have been asked many times buy people to stop doing it.
Pretty Please with sugar on top cease this behavior.
If you start new threads with the information that you supply you will be helping a lot more people, for example calibration of displays etc.
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