Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 3:11 PM (in response to mittense)
How bad is yours?
Mine looks like this (normal use, issues after few minutes, getting worse):
Will bring it to an Apple Store next week… they'll run a test and then let me know if it's eligible for a repair.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 3:20 PM (in response to Andreas Gysin)
You bring up a good point. I just checked the pictures from the site you linked as well (http://www.ertdfgcvb.com/retina-ghosting/). I know, as fact, that about 40% of people buy a rMBP to have a rMBP, not to use it intensively and aren't even all too tech savvy. If I were just another customer and saw those pictures, I would think its completely normal and that there's just transparency (or opacity) between each web page. Now, being the tech savvy person I am, it's an obvious defect. From another - non tech savvy - standpoint, seems completely normal. Just my $.02.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 6:00 PM (in response to mittense)
If your LCD is suffering from image persistence try the following:-
1. Turn off your monitor for extended periods of time, you may need to do this for several hours or even several days.
2. Use a screen saver with a rotating image and run it for extended periods of time. The rotating colour palette should help remove the persistent image but it could take a long time
3. Run the screen with a single solid colour or bright white background for an extended period of time, this will cause all of the crystals to be reset at a single colour setting and should erase any previous image persistence.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 6:17 PM (in response to Chuck Gould)
Well, the problem is that with Apple anyway (I can't speak to Lenovo's issues), LG SJA1 panels are susceptible to developing IR whether a screen saver is in use or not.
It's not ideal, but at least understandable, that IR might persist for a few minutes after the same image is displayed on the screen for an hour or more. For these cases, directing the user to a support article explaining the situation is acceptable.
But with the Apple LG SJA1 panels, this is not the case. The IR persists for five or more minutes, after a static image or screen is on for only five minutes. And Apple is trying to get away with using the same "tech note" support strategy for their problem. The difference is night and day different. One problem is merely an annoyance and does not interfere with the intended use of the device. The SJA1 problem is much more severe and in another league entirely.
I'm a software developer and I write code. I frequently have a code editor open for 15 to 20 minutes at a time, and I can tell you that is not an unusual usage pattern for a display. To be experiencing IR for minutes after switching from the code window to a web browser -- that's just wrong and saying that this is "a feature of the technology" does not cut it. If that's the case, they screwed up plain and simple. They chose the wrong technology for their notebooks. They should own up to it and fix it for everybody. Fortunately, Samsung uses a different technology, and while their panels are also not perfect, they are better than the SJA1 mess we've all been dragged through.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 7:10 PM (in response to brianjsw)
I wasn't implying that there isn't a problem with some percentage of LG displays. There is obviously a threshold beyond which any persistence can't (and shouldn't) be tolerated. I also do development, image editing, graphic design, and some video work. Though my development work is for my own use these days, I'm a retired s/w engineer with 30+ years experience, and 100% agree with you on the usage pattern. Any noticeable persistence would make me nuts too.
However, it's isn't accurate to say the entire run of SJA1 panels are bad. It's just not supported by fact. Believe me, with the experience I have (and the pickiness of an engineer), if there were any hint of persistence on my own LG rMBP, I would be asking the same questions about the LG panels. I have a perfect display, and posts by others with critical eyes report their own IR-free panels - I just can't buy into the argument that all the LG SJA1 panels are bad.
I haven't visited any Lenovo forums to see what their threads on the subject are like, but typically, the tech sites latch onto any issue Apple might have and turn it into a "display-gate" (there has actually been little written about the rMBP IR, compared with, for example, the iPhone 4 antenna extravaganza). That was the point of my "epidemic" comment.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 7:29 PM (in response to Chuck Gould)
Understood. Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page after all. Agreed there may be some that don't have problems. Having been a victim of this problem, and hearing about some people not getting replacements I just had to get back on my soap box. My main gripe was, as you correctly surmised, Apple's position of telling some unlucky customers that their "IR after 15 minute" panels are normal and "hey here's a tech note that says so right here -- bye bye don't let the door hit you on the way out"
Currently Being ModeratedApr 17, 2013 7:39 PM (in response to brianjsw)
It'll be interesting to see how's things go over the next few months, after the last of the mid-2012's have seen 6 months or more use (mine's right at two now). I'm sure many of us will be following the forums on this one.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 18, 2013 2:24 AM (in response to Andreas Gysin)
I got my lg sj1 screen replaced and have a samsung now, so far its fine but I do prefere the LG.
My IR was realy bad, but when I arrived into compub (apple reseller) I nearly died when I tried to demonstrate the problem to the sales assistant - display appeared to be perfect! I noticed there was allot of direct light from a roof window so I took it down to a shady corner of the store and of course could see the terrible IR - showed the sales ***. he agreed it was brutal! - Left the machine in for repair, got a call from the repair man saying he couldnt find anything wrong! Passed apples sh1tty IR tests! I convinced him to talk to the sales assistant. He called me back and told me he would fail the test and replace the display! Hallajulya! Got a Samsung - was hoping for LG sj2 but happy enough.
"they'll run a test and then let me know if it's eligible for a repair" - Three geusses for how that will go!
Noticeable IR no matter how faint is definately not normal! If its an LG sj1 its likely to get worse over time - insist they replace it - your replacement only comes with a 60 day warrenty and as you have probable gathered from this thread you may need a coupple of replacements before it comes right!!! You paid allot of money to this machine - insist they replace it!
Apple should have done a recall or at least not tried to bs. us that IR is normal ! For the people that had to have more than one screen replacement - they should have been offered a new machine!
Hopefully this is my last visit to this thread
Question for jajabba: 1: Why do packets of crisps inflate while on an aeroplane? 2: Does it make a difference weather they are salt and vinigar of cheese and onion?
The creaking body definitly matters, they made such a who ha about how quiet the fan is!
Currently Being ModeratedApr 18, 2013 6:21 AM (in response to mittense)
Just wanted to add my experience to the mix.
LG panel, initially lovely - about three months in ghosting become exceedingly annoying. I didn't want to go through replacement after replacement so waited until now (just before six months up so I still had "it was there when I bought it and the onus is on your to prove otherwise" protection under the UK's Sales of Goods Act.). I went into the Regent Street Apple Store expecting to have an argument....
They didn't even run the test. Just from bringing up the serial number, then closing it to show desktop it was clear ghosting was there. So a new display clamshell has been ordered right away.
Interesting, the Genius was very honest. He said "whenever a new product is released we all sit and wait for The Issue as there's always one. Then we get a flood of people wanting it fixed but at first we don't know how to fix these things. We log them, it gets passed up, they work out a solution - and in this case they have to also go back to the suppliers to investigate and solve an issue - then, hopefully quickly, we are able to fix it."
He said that 'theoretically' they should now be replacing all ghosting screens with non-ghosting parts so there should be no replacement after replacement to get a good screen - it's just they couldn't do nothing when people complained earlier so they blindly swapped.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 18, 2013 7:20 AM (in response to Lee-Jay Bannister)
TBH ,you are very lucky person ...
My genius @Brent Cross was a complete a******le, Despite the video evidences Ive got they still Refused to replace my display both Genius and Store manager!
here is my screen
sent an email to UK CEO today I've got the reply from Executive Relations, gonna call them soon
Wish me luck
Currently Being ModeratedApr 18, 2013 6:55 AM (in response to ikomu)
Well if you're in the UK try a 'claim' under Sales of Goods Act. Section 14 says "For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances." So for the price (£2,500) you have higher expectations of 'satisfactory' than other laptops, and the description also comes into play. This laptop is DEFINED by its display and the online description talks about "incredible engineering feat", "level of clarity never seen", "better than ever", "most advanced notebook". So you can argue a "reasonable person" would not expect the ghosting you are seeing to be described as "satisfactory quality" by Apple.
And also bear in mind the Act says products must show "freedom from minor defects".
Also, in London I would steer clear or Brent Cross and Covent Garden (I haven't tried Westfield) as I've found them, well, not as good. Covent Garden replaced a logic board on one of my MacBook Pros and completely forgot to reattach the microphone! Regent Street is the original and best. They've repaired numerous Macs for me (and replaced a couple of iPhones) and I have had nothing but amazing service from them.
Currently Being ModeratedApr 18, 2013 7:00 AM (in response to Lee-Jay Bannister)
Lee ,Thanks very much for your kind Reply I will follow your words
I guess I should call them first to talk that person replied my e-mail and see how it goes...
Many Thanks for your advices again...
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