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  • 15. Re: Choosing workstation
    Intenditore Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Many thanks for such expanded answer. I agree what you say, but there's a few moments.

    I want mobile workstation. I understand it will not perform as fast as big desktop monster, of cource. But my need is not so huge and what I do is not so complicated. I did a reserch I found that Macbook Pro 2.6 will satisfy me (for first time at least). Later if I will need to I'll build Hackintosh monster, but not for now.

    Now I just don't know what to expect from Pro's in aspects I asked about in first post.

    But, of cource, I want something as lite as Air. By the way, it performs not bad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcl-Zmkg34

    It's a bit hard to decide so I opened this thread

  • 16. Re: Choosing workstation
    ds store Level 7 Level 7 (30,305 points)

    danegeld wrote:


    Unlike most of the others in this thread, I agree with your decision to move to the Mac. I do high-end graphic design (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop), photo (Aperture), video (Final Cut Pro, Motion 5), and some 3D (Carrara, Cheetah) on my 2011 MacBook Pro.


    I have a Early 2011 MacBook Pro 17" which originally came with OS X Snow Leopard 10.6, I bought lots of software only to have it NOT WORK in OS X 10.7 (PPC based) and then developers drop off the platform because Apple came out with AppStore and (in 10.8 Gatekeeper) thus wanting to rake in 30% off each sale of software.


    Apple gave NO notification that 10.7 was not going to run PPC software, that's devastating to workflows and budgets, it's because Apple doesn't care about long term users need for stability and foresight before they go changing up their software they need to function.


    Your machine might be running fine now, but the graphics card in it is going to be practically obsolete shortly especially when you upgrade to 10.8 and later bloated versions of software. Guess what?, you can't do anything about it neither because it's soldiered to the logicboard.


    So what happens with Mac's is your almost required to turn over your expensive machine more often, like every three years, when with a Win 7 tower all one has to do is get a new graphics card and it will last for 7 or more years with the same software.


    Since I switched from Windows to Mac, the one thing I've noticed most is that I spend much less time maintaining the system and more time doing productive work.


    I have no problem maintaining Windows on my Mac here, nor on my friends PC's I maintain. Easy as silk.


    It's the same thing, backup, backup, backup. Either on Mac's or Windows it's same thing.


    Windows 7 gets a heck of a lot less malware than XP did, and OS X is getting a lot more lately.


    I have to run anti-virus on a Mac just as often as on Windows.


    According to the Russian antivirus company Dr. Web, a modified version of the "BackDoor.Flashback.39" variant of the Flashback Trojan has infected over 600,000 Mac computers, forming a botnet that includes 274 bots located in Cupertino, California, the location of the headquarters of Apple Inc





    Apple has install anti-malware in OS X, MSE is free. Apple has TimeMachine, Windows 7 has System Restore Images.


    It's all the same now, but true, OS X on Mac's is a smoother experience, but it's not worth spending 3x more and having to replace the hardware much more often (and third party software) in the process.


    Still there is the matter of almost NO video card upgrades for the MacPro, and Apple has ignored it for Thunderbolt and USB 3, so it's a sign they are letting it die.


    In other words there is no professional future on Mac's, the remaing ones are turning into iOS devices that look more like iPads than Mac's.


    The new Retina's are all sealed up, god forbid if you need more onboard storage or RAM.


    What makes the thing fly is the internal SSD and discrete graphics card.


    The SSD is only accessed for booting up, loading programs and swapping memory if you overload the RAM.


    A properly maintained 5,400 RPM hard drive is only a 10 seconds slower to boot OS X and a mere half a second slower loading programs.


    If you think the SSD flies, it's because you either had a older machine with SATA I or you didn't maintain it properly, didn't have enough RAM in the machine to cover what your doing (like a 32 bit processor limited at 3.5GB).



    Since the discrete graphics is stationary, it's going to become obsolete soon because OS X and programs get bloated to push hardware sales. Also OS X versions get dropped for security updates more rapidly.


    On nealry all Mac's this forces a premature hardware turnover like every 3-4 years instead of every 7-10 years on Windows PC's, and with a new OS X verison comes all new paid for versions of software, don't keep up and your denied security updates. (like 10.5 users on Intel and PPC machines are going through now)


    A Windows 7 tower is the most economical choice, the OS stays the same along with installed software (Win 7 Pro even runs XP software) and the video card is upgradable.


    I also have an ExpressCard SSD that I use as the scratch disk for Photoshop and Illustrator, which makes them very fast indeed.


    That was only available on the 17" MacBook Pro and it's been discontinued.


    Do you see what I mean now?



    If you already own Windows versions of the Adobe software, you can switch to the Mac versions for only the cost of the media. It's one of the very few things Adobe will do basically for free.


    Why do that when the OP can get a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 4GB of RAM (expandable to 16GB or more) and a decent upgrade path for video cards in the future and just transfer the license over?


    Why bother learning a whole new OS version, only to find out they can't use certain software because it's only on Windows and Apple goes and releases a yet another RADICAL OS X change that turns Mac's further into iPads and quite possibly locks the installation of outside of AppStore out?


    Methinks that's NOT a good longterm plan, unless your a rich consumer.


    The OP is going to have to run Windows on their Mac eventually, there is always that one piece of software that's only on Windows due to their larger market share.

  • 17. Re: Choosing workstation
    ds store Level 7 Level 7 (30,305 points)

    Intenditore wrote:


    I want mobile workstation. I understand it will not perform as fast as big desktop monster, of cource. But my need is not so huge and what I do is not so complicated.


    Inside each MacBook Pro there are these tiny cooling fins connected to the cooling system that runs across the CPU and discrete graphics chip (only in the 15").


    Screen shot 2013-04-18 at 9.05.52 PM.jpg


    The fans blow against these cooling fins and as dust etc., gets inhaled into the machine it winds up getting stuck right there.


    Powerful software that kicks up the fans will collect more debris at this area and shorten the life of the machine if it's not cleaned out every 6-12 months.


    Retina's once can't open the machine less they void their warranty/AppleCare, if you ask Apple to do it they look at you like deer in the headlights.


    It might be you have $3000+ to toss every three years on a new MacBook Pro, then welcome to the club.


    But usually complicated software like Maya and such you need a more stable platform with less changes than Apple is doing with OS X.


    We are now on a annual OS X upgrade cycle, 10.8 was released only a year after 10.7




    Later if I will need to I'll build Hackintosh monster, but not for now.


    Not going to happen, because Apple doesn't sell OS X seperatly anymore like they did with 10.6.


    In order to install 10.7 or 10.8, you need to download it from Apple directly and only to a Mac, with your AppleID and password.


    All AppStore software is copy protected and likely soon will be OS X.


    You want a free machine to do what you want?, you have to stick with Windows 7.




    But, of cource, I want something as lite as Air.


    The only machine that is going to run Maya and Photoshop well and be portable is the top end 15" MacBook Pro with it's additional discrete graphics chip.


    The Air and the MacBook Pro 13" has only CPU based Intel HD 4000 graphics, it's the same crap that's on $400 Office store PC's!


    We get a whole bunch of 3D gamers in here time to time who complain they can't run 3D games on their 13" MacBook Pro's or it overheats, cause video graphic issues.



    By the time you spend oodles of money for a top of the line 15" MacBook Pro, software etc., only to last 3 years and then required replacement, you could have had a darn good Windows 7 tower and it would last at least 7-10 years.


    Perhaps if you like the MacBook Air so much, get one and use it for more mudane tasks, then get the Windows 7 Pro tower for the more high end tasks?


    Not against you getting a Mac, just get the right machine for the job.

  • 18. Re: Choosing workstation
    Intenditore Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I totaly disagree with you. I can't guess, maybe you took some offence from Apple, i do not know. but what you say sounds more like apple-hating, sorry. I newer saw any computer that will not be obsolete after maximum 3 years, even if it's the top of the line. Plus, CPU and GPU is ALWAYS soldered on motherboard in any notebook, whatewer Apple's or not. Even if it's not, you can't swap it by yourself and with any other model, it will not work.

    3 times more for the same - is not true! Look at analogs with comparable hardware and screens (I dont't talk about build quality even), Asus and Sony for example - their prices are around the same as Macbook, if we'll take a look at Dell it's **** expencive and may not be comparable.

    + Everything I saw on youtube, real-world tests and my personal experience tells me even Air 11 is pretty powerful and may not be comparable with "400$ office crap" that i'm working on now. It's like earth and heaven.

    And, of cource, Win 7, Win 8 - all it's crap. It can't stand even near with Mac OS. Recource handaling may not be comparable, windows hangs completely when Mac OS works. I wouldn't even speak about a huge amout of little stupid problems and annoyances windows gives.

    I sympathize you if you had wrong experience with Mac, but what you say is too subjective.


    So, please, can anyone answer my simple questions from my first post?


    Ok, I feel I have to close this thread and start new to get answer.


    Message was edited by: Intenditore

  • 19. Re: Choosing workstation
    Intenditore Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yes, I understand... Pretty much every laptop has same issue when we have to clean it from dust. But when it's about 35-40 C degrees outside will Pro (or retina Pro) work normally? When I render movie in Final Cut or scene in C4D (100% on all 4 cores and video card in active usage), for example? This machine will be my main workstation for long time, so I'm a bit affraid...)

  • 20. Re: Choosing workstation
    danegeld Level 2 Level 2 (185 points)

    Wow. That's some serious Apple-hating. Just a few corrections.


    • Apple stated quite clearly that PPC software wasn't going to be supported any more in 10.7 and that Rosetta was going to be dropped. Everyone who was paying attention knew that.
    • A 5400rpm spinning-platter drive is never going to be as fast as an SSD and there's really no comparison. My MBP boots in 15 seconds. Photoshop loads in 2 seconds. I use my ExpressCard SSD for Photoshop's and Illustrator's swap files and it speeds up working on large files by a factor of about 50.
    • I had the foresight to buy the last 17" MBP when I suspected Apple was going to discontinue it and I expect it to serve me well for another 3 or 4 years. After that, I'll find another solution that probably doesn't even exist yet.
    • I've only found one thing I have to run Windows for on my MBP and that's the Kronos system used by the company I work for. It doesn't even work with Firefox, so that's no great surprise.


    Finally, no, I'm not an Apple zealot. I pick the system that works best for what I need to do and that does it with the least amount of maintenance and aggravation. In 1983, that was a Commodore 64. In 1985, it was an Amiga. In 1993, it was a Windows 3.1 clone. Right now, that's a MacBook Pro. Everything is subject to change.

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