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Helpful answers
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May 3, 2013 9:53 PM in response to Roger Wilmut1by routerbad,You can set up alternate email addresses on your AppleID, there is absolutely no logical reason why someone would not be able to use their icloud.com email address as their AppleID. The most anyone can do is change their primary email to their icloud address by changing the notification email through payment info, then if you are trying to migrate from one service to another (gmail to icloud or live mail to icloud) you have to continue to remember the third party AppleID regardless of whether you want to use that email address. Indeed regardless of whether you want another email address at all. Apple already have a password and account recovery tool that does not require additional email addresses.
If Apple want to maintain a backup email address beyond the recovery system they already have in place that requires no email traffic to use (security questions to reset passwords, simple) then simply require a backup email during signup. Either way, not allowing people to set their AppleID to the address of their choosing, regardless of whether it is an Apple domain or not, is assinine.
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May 3, 2013 9:55 PM in response to Roger Wilmut1by routerbad,The same thing would happen using another mail service. Someone tries to log into itunes using what they think is their gmail account, it's really someone elses gmail account and also tied to itunes (because we can't use apple domain addresses)
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May 3, 2013 9:58 PM in response to Roger Wilmut1by routerbad,That's completely false, iforgot.apple.com does not require email traffic to reset passwords or recover appleids. It is an option, not a requirement.
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May 3, 2013 11:41 PM in response to routerbadby Roger Wilmut1,routerbad wrote:
That's completely false, iforgot.apple.com does not require email traffic to reset passwords or recover appleids.
I didn't say it did. I said 'However anyone doing this should certainly associate a non-Apple address with the ID otherwise if they forget their password they won't be able to access a reset password which has been sent to them'. They can answer security questions as an alternative, but the majority of people who have managed to forget their password seem either to have not set, or to have forgotten the answers to, the security questions. This will involve them in interesting discussions with Support.
The situation has now been complicated - or simplified, depending on how it affect you - by the availability ot two-step identification which if activated requires use of a mobile capable of receiving text messages. If this goes wrong, Support will not be able to help.
Not having an associated non-Apple email address is ultimately asking for problems.
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May 4, 2013 12:00 AM in response to Roger Wilmut1by routerbad,You didn't have to say it, you implied it, and wrong again.
I'm not referring to two step verification, you can reset your password and recover your AppleID without needing a mobile phone at all, simply by answering security questions, and every other service on the face of the planet that has an associated messaging system (that email thingy on your phone, guy) allows you (most force) to use the account your messaging account through them to access their services. So if I want to access Yahoo groups I can and should use my @yahoo.com email address if I happen to have one.
What you are doing is making excuses and being an apologist for Apple writ large for their lack of a sensible account management system.
" 'However anyone doing this should certainly associate a non-Apple address with the ID otherwise if they forget their password they won't be able to access a reset password which has been sent to them'."
This statement is false, and that was what I originally said. The password reset tool at iforgot.apple.com does not require the use of email verification or text verification to recover and reset passwords.
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May 4, 2013 12:14 AM in response to routerbadby Roger Wilmut1,Just so that we can be seen to be in agreement let me slightly re-phrase my comment so that you will not be confused by any ambiguity.
'However anyone doing this should certainly associate a non-Apple address with the ID otherwise if they forget their password they won't be able to access a reset password which they have elected to have sent to them'.
As I said above, many people cannot answer the security questions. And I am not making excuses for anyone - I'm stating the situation as it is. If you don't approve of the situation you can send feedback to Apple: http://www.apple.com/feedback . If you don't approve of my answers that is something we shall both have to grit our teeth and live with.
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May 4, 2013 12:49 AM in response to Roger Wilmut1by reitermoritz,Roger, sorry for my words, but I can't help saying this: The annoying thing about you is, that what you keep suggesting does not matter for the issue that should be discussed in this thread.
If Apple thinks we have to have a non-Apple recovery email address in our account, that's fine.
But: Why does that alternative email has to be the Apple ID?
Roger, you did not even try to explain that question. You keep making a statement that is irrelevant to the actual issue. So routerbad is perferctly right: You are making up excuses, and very bad excuses, too.
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May 4, 2013 1:13 AM in response to reitermoritzby Roger Wilmut1,Well, you are asking me to explain why Apple have made a particular decision, and obviously I'm not in a position to do this. I've tried to suggest why it's a good idea to have a non-Apple alternative address for safety reasons - a point not everyone seems to agree with.
Ths situation is a bit confusing: to summarize it as far as I understand it:
If you create an Apple ID this has to be a non-Apple address. If you then use that to sign in in System Preferences (or Settings)>iCloud then you create an iCloud address, and you cannot subsequently make this an Apple ID.
However if you create an iCloud account when initially setting up an iOS device you can use the iCloud address as the ID.
I have no idea why this apparent (and on the face of it illogical) discrepancy is the case, though one point to remember is that an Apple ID can be used for other things than an iCloud account - signing in here, or registration of new hardware - by people who don't have or don't want an iCloud account.
You are apparently complaining that I haven't explained Apple's reasoning: it's unrealistic to expect that I could.
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May 4, 2013 1:18 AM in response to Roger Wilmut1by reitermoritz,Roger, I'm not complaining that you haven't explained something, I'm complaining that you acted as if you would have an explanation during the largest part of the discussion when in fact you had no clue, what you finally admitted now.
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May 4, 2013 2:10 AM in response to reitermoritzby Roger Wilmut1,I don't believe I ever said any such thing, but if you have interpreted my posts to infer that I did I can only apologize for not making myself sufficiently clear.