Ribs2312

Q: My first camera..

I'm graduating university and starting to make my own films.

 

Currently, I'm just using my iphone 5 and imovie app. The camera is great but imovie is basic and the lack of storage on an iPhone means I can only make 2 minute videos. Frustrating.

 

Anyway, I'm looking into getting a MacBook Pro and Final Cut Pro.

First of all, should I get the retina or non-retina?

 

Secondly, and most importantly...

I was in the apple store today and saw the stock/demo footage on the Final Cut Pro and thought it looked amazing. What camera did they use? Is there an entry level camera that comes anywhere near that kind of quality? Probably not, but the quality was brilliant.

 

I obviously don't have a lot of money.

 

Can anyone recommend a good HD camera that will work with Final Cut Pro and exceeds the quality the iPhone 5 camera?

 

 

 

I don't have much knowledge of cameras yet so don't be offended by my ignorance. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

 

Thanks

Posted on May 2, 2013 1:37 PM

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Q: My first camera..

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  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 3, 2013 6:13 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 3, 2013 6:13 PM in response to Ribs2312

    And also the has good depth of field. I love the look that DSLRs give 

     

    Is this possible from a camcorder?

     

     

     

     

    I'm going round in circles and getting nowhere.

  • by EZ Jim,

    EZ Jim EZ Jim May 3, 2013 7:40 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 7 (22,547 points)
    May 3, 2013 7:40 PM in response to Ribs2312

    Ribs2312 wrote: ... the has good depth of field... Is this possible from a camcorder?

     

    If by "good" DOF, you mean shallow DOF like many DSLRs give, a larger sensor camcorder like this Sony may be of interest.

     

     

     

     

    Message was edited by: EZ Jim

     

     

    Mac OSX 10.8.3

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter May 3, 2013 11:09 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 7 (32,713 points)
    Video
    May 3, 2013 11:09 PM in response to Ribs2312

    Ribs2312 wrote:

    And also the has good depth of field. I love the look that DSLRs give

    Is this possible from a camcorder?

    a shallow DoF is possible with ANY camera/camcorder! < surprise >

    just set your glas to 'long lense'/tele, and open the aperture.

     

    What large sensor devices allow is something different:

    blurred bg even with a wide lense!

     

    full-size sensors are unpayable and require glas for $$$$.

    most popular 'DSLR' are using the much smaller APSC sensors - cheaper, but more difficult to create that 'look'.

    there are few, designated 'camcorders' with such sensors.

    most camcorders use smaller sensors.-

     

    heritical question: Are you sure, you want DoF?

    e.g., when you like to do 'free hand' video (all kind of sports/action), DoF is a NoGo killer-criteria!

    famous GoPro is sharp from Zero to Eeternity

     

    ... again: there's no 'universal' tool!

     

    your 'critical' criteria is manual focus and wide-lense - e.g. my cheap Pana707 (got it for 380€) has a 24mm (which is nice) but just a sort-of manual focus, due to touch-screen control - not as good as its bigger sister 909, which has a 'real' focus ring - but costs 3x more.-

     

    probably, a used GH2 or a used 550D (US: Canon t2i) plus some 'glas' is a better choice for you.- ?

     

    what is your price range?

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 3, 2013 11:34 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 3, 2013 11:34 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    I really don't know anything about cameras. I just don't want to spend £££ and it turns out that the camera is rubbish. So sorry if I appear a bit dim.

     

    Through fear of saying the wrong technical words, I'll keep it simple.

     

     

    I'd like an entry-level camera (any type) that has a really clear picture, is steady and easy to use and can focus on both the foreground and background well (and switch between). I'll be shooting things like short films, music videos etc. I'd also like to it to be able to record good sound (whether through its own mic or an add-on).

     

    My budget is £500 ($800 I think) but I'd much rather spend a lot less (obviously!)

     

     

    Thanks for replying to me. You have been very helpful. I can only apologise for my ignorance.

     

    Ryan

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter May 4, 2013 2:53 AM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 7 (32,713 points)
    Video
    May 4, 2013 2:53 AM in response to Ribs2312

    Ribs2312 wrote:

    … I can only apologise for my ignorance.

    not willing to know is ignorance.

    you want to know - that is curiosity

     

    ~ 600€ is a good budget - for a camcorder. keep in mind: SDcards, tripod, maybe an ext. mic, a tripod, maybe some ND-filter (…next year…), and for sure a tripod .....

     

    last year, my journey led to the Panasonic707, now 727 - a good compromise of 'point'n shoot automatics' and 'in depth manual' control. plus a relatively big sensor, super high bitrate (=that's a 'quality' indicator), good glas, .... as mentioned above: the manual focus is a bit tricky, due to touch screen controlled.

     

    You/I will have a lot of fun the next years with that.-

     

    The compact cameras or 'bridge' devices (Lumix FZ) often lack ext-mic-in, or wide lense or low-light-performance; but 4 years ago, the FZ38 was my choice - for my needs! (e.g. I need a loooong zoom, and super-fast auto-focus, for my tiny soccer pros).-

     

    if optional, visit 2 or 3 (smaller) supplier, mention your budget (minus150 for stuff, a tripod for example). Try how to handle the different 'breeds' of devices, pocket cam, bridge, dslr, camcorder (hard to find any in shops! )

     

    btw: My tripod is a Velbon, fluid-head, high, light, 80€ ....

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 4, 2013 3:35 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 4, 2013 3:35 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Very helpful again, thank you.

     

    On the websites I have looked at, they have little choice. Is there any chance you could link me to the cameras you just mentioned and recommend please? I only know the high street electronic stores in the UK you see.

     

     

    Thanks again, you have been super helpful.

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter May 4, 2013 5:39 AM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 7 (32,713 points)
    Video
    May 4, 2013 5:39 AM in response to Ribs2312

    Ribs2312 wrote:

    … Is there any chance you could link me to the cameras you just mentioned and recommend please?

    my ol' Lumix FZ38:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-FZ38EB-K-Digital-Camera/dp/B002KHMJ7 8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367670131&sr=8-1&keywords=panasonic+lumix+fz38

     

    a more actual version FZ150

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DMC-FZ150-Compact-Camera-Recording/dp/B005LTRD 5U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367670219&sr=8-1&keywords=lumix+fz150

     

    latest FZ200

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lumix-FZ200-Bridge-Camera/dp/B008N8NXT6/ref=sr _1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670273&sr=1-1&keywords=lumix+fz200

     

    those are 'Brdiges.

     

    my actuaal camcorder is

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-V720-Full-Camcorder-Sensitivity/dp/B00B170BMI/ ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670332&sr=1-1&keywords=panasonic+hcv700

     

    (diff type # in the UK)

     

    actual version is 727

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-HC-V727EG-K-HC-V727/dp/B00BC1C2IO/ref=sr_1_2?s =electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670368&sr=1-2&keywords=panasonic+hcv727

     

    famous GH2

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH2EB-K-System-Camera/dp/B004VQX1XW/ ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670398&sr=1-1&keywords=panasonic+gh2

    .. famous, cause the Magic Lanteern Hack made it a 'cinematographers dream'

     

    Canon 550d, one of the first videoDSLRs

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Digital-Camera-18-55-3-5-5-6/dp/B0037KM0F8/ref=sr_ 1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670498&sr=1-1&keywords=canon+550d

     

    actual model 600d

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-600D-Digital-Camera-Body/dp/B004MPQXS2/ref=sr_1_1? s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670559&sr=1-1&keywords=canon+600d+body+only

     

    actual beginner videoDSLR from NIkon D5200

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D5200-18-55mm-Lens-Kit/dp/B00A2MSK1C/ref=sr_1_1?s= electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670810&sr=1-1&keywords=nikon+d5100

     

    another woking horse, Sony cx250

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Handycam-CX250-Full-Camcorder/dp/B006W74H04/ref=sr_ 1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367670726&sr=1-6&keywords=sony+full+hd+camcorder

     

    ... I'm no salesman ...

     

    amazon, slashcam.com, camcorderinfo.com as a starting point for hours of reading.

     

    again, don't let you get mad by the 'pixelpeepers'! all devices offer superb quality in the 400+ price range! in 99% cases, under real world conditions you never reach borders/limits! basic rule: lots of light, no hasty movements (of cam) … perhaps a tripod....

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 4, 2013 8:22 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 4, 2013 8:22 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Thank you very much for that! I have a lot of reading up to do. I think I'll head down to the nearest camera store and check some stuff out.

     

    How do DSLRs do for sound?

     

    It's looking increasingly like I'll go for the 727 under your recommendation and it has pretty much everything I need. I have a budget that I didn't want to hit but it's looking more likely!

     

     

    Thanks again!

    You have been super helpful!!!!!

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter May 4, 2013 8:54 AM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 7 (32,713 points)
    Video
    May 4, 2013 8:54 AM in response to Ribs2312

    Ribs2312 wrote:

    …  How do DSLRs do for sound? …

    I dare to say: ANY built-in mic is so la-la ....

     

    for 'serious' audio you HAVE to use a high-quality (aka >100£) microphone and/or ext. recorder (the Zoom H1 is one handy thingie) - again: depends on your needs.

     

    I need just some 'atmosphere', yelling coaches, shouting crowd etc.

    for an interview, for music, for birds, in a loud surronding, in a quiet studio .. different.

     

    ....young Skywalker, your actual position is

    'doing moving pictures with a cell phone'!

    we meanwhile discuss HiFi audio on DSLR ...!!

     

    stop thinking. start doing.

     

    ... seriously!

  • by Searchin99,

    Searchin99 Searchin99 May 4, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 1 (48 points)
    Desktops
    May 4, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Ribs2312

    You know, Ribs, as I read over the above posts I keep reading things in your replies that tell me you're going to have a LOT of learning to do. I mean, a LOT. And not being filthy rich will put a damper on those starry eyes looking at all the goodies everybody is talking about. The basics, and you can pencil out them out by going to Amazon or any of the other buying web sites, are going to include:

     

    Camera

    Computer

    Software for editing and processing the video clips.

     

    The above is really, really basic. Maybe more basic might be using your iPhone in lieu of the camera but we won't go there.

     

    For the camera, in your situation, I'd recommend going USED. I picked up a little JVC 130 model for $65 (new ~$300) a couple years ago and it shoots Full HD. No mic input but it is full solid state and has a removable SD card. (The SD card doesn't allow Full HD on this model - it's older). Anyway, there are a lot of menu options and will keep you busy learning the ins and outs of video. The plus: it is quite small and is VERY portable. I've taken it in my coat pocket (winter) or just plain old hand carried it. I wouldn't loose sleep over worrying about if it gets damaged or anything. This is good.

     

    On the other hand, with 20-20 hind sight, I would have opted for a slightly better model that had a mic input. In your case that's what I'd really recommend is something with a "Mic in". Used, same brand and year, probably, say, ~$130.  This won't be money wasted - use it for your B-Cam in a couple years.

     

    Computer, same as above but maybe a little different. Used and cheap is okay but it needs to be able to run the application. You want FCPX but for starters I'd go with iMovie - a lot cheaper and may not require as much computer resources (I'm guessing here 'cuz I don't know). Any video editing application is going to be hard on the computer and laptops will really get hot. Read: I'm worried about failure here. I prefer a desktop Mac Pro because it is very robust and built like a tank, not like a tinny PC box. The Mac Pro, though, is going to run a few bucks. Also needs a monitor.

     

    Applications:

    I'd really start out with iMovie because it is much more inexpensive and does a lot. Good learning tool and you'll need money for a lot of other things. In the case of the camera, what file type is the output? Will the file type need to be processed so the editing application can read the files? If so, that's another expense. Get your ducks in a row and write down the prices.

     

    Acccessories:

    Tripod - You aren't going to do all this stuff hand-held are you? There are cheap tripods like what still cameras use and then there are video tripods. Start with a cheap one, say $25 used. Later it can be used to hold a mic or video ling or what ever. A new video tripod is going to be in the $400 and up range.

     

    Light - I'll leave this unanswered due to difficulty. LEDs are popular but have color issues.

     

    Mic - definitely will need a mic and probably sooner than later. I picked up a little Rode stere video mic for $175 used. Hey, that's more than what I paid for the camera!!! Okay, so it works on my second camera - the first one didn't have a mic input (see above).

     

    Preamps - Good mics will have XLR cables so you'll need a good preamp to accept their input, maybe provide phantom power, and line out to a mini jack. Figure a couple hundred for this. Six hundred for the XLR mic.

     

    Are we having fun yet?

     

    Okay, start cheap and upgrade as you go along.

     

    Backup drives for the computer?

    Lavalier mic? Wired or wireless?

    Glidecam?

    Monopod?

    Light reflectors?

    Battery tester? (you're going to use a lot of batteries)

    Windshield/blimp for the mic (windy situation)

    Softie/wind muff for the mic (light wind)

    .... and the list goes on, and on, and on,....

     

    Go cheap, get a job, save for the house, and build your kit as you learn and can afford it.

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 4, 2013 12:16 PM in response to Searchin99
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 4, 2013 12:16 PM in response to Searchin99

    I never claimed to know ANYTHING about cameras or filmmaking.

     

    Iv studied films at Uni but not what goes into filmmaking eg cameras, mics, lights, software etc.

     

    I'm offended you seem to think I am starry eyed and filthy rich. I have saved my money for a long time for this exact purpose and it is only now that I'm starting to research it all as I have the time.

     

    I used a camcorder in college for a task and it turned out my iPhone was a lot better so I really didn't understand the hype.

     

    I'm asking lots of questions and trying to figure it all out (the basics at least).

     

    I said I liked the look of some cameras, without looking at price.

     

    Sorry if I offended you.

  • by Searchin99,

    Searchin99 Searchin99 May 4, 2013 1:00 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 1 (48 points)
    Desktops
    May 4, 2013 1:00 PM in response to Ribs2312

    Whoa, what's going on here? Geeze....

     

    1. I never claimed you knew everything about cameras. Where did you get that idea? Au contraire, in my opening sentence I wrote "You know, Ribs, as I read over the above posts I keep reading things in your replies that tell me you're going to have a LOT of learning to do"

     

    2. About the "filthy rich" part, I wrote (next sentence): " And not being filthy rich will put a damper on those starry eyes looking at all the goodies everybody is talking about." So, what part about "NOT being..." didn't you understand? Secondly, note that I didn't say that YOU had starry eyes.

     

    3. You wrote: "I'm asking lots of questions and trying to figure it all out (the basics at least)."

    That's perfectly clear to me. That's why I was trying to help you out and my suggestions are to basically go the USED route because I sensed (didn't know fore sure) that you WEREN'T "filthy rich." Having said that, however, if you wind up getting serious about this it wouldn't hurt to have some deep pockets.

     

    That was quite a bit that I wrote trying to HELP you out and this is the kind of thanks I get. Oh well, I guess it's win some, loose some.

     

    Hope this helps to clarify things.

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 4, 2013 1:06 PM in response to Searchin99
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 4, 2013 1:06 PM in response to Searchin99

    Sincerest apologies. You caught me at a really, really bad time.

     

    I rushed through reading and obviously communication was lost. And I took it the wrong way.

     

     

    I've re-read your message. And like with everyone who has contributed, I have been very appreciative of your time and effort! Thank you for such a detailed message and it has helped.

     

    Apologies again.

     

    Ryan

  • by Ribs2312,

    Ribs2312 Ribs2312 May 4, 2013 1:21 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 4, 2013 1:21 PM in response to Ribs2312

    I acted like an ignorant **** (insert any 4 letter word here!)

    I really apologise!!! You caught me at a bad time (we all have lives outside the Internet, who'da thought it?)

    Very, very sorry. Can't stress that enough!!!

  • by Searchin99,

    Searchin99 Searchin99 May 4, 2013 2:29 PM in response to Ribs2312
    Level 1 (48 points)
    Desktops
    May 4, 2013 2:29 PM in response to Ribs2312

    Hey Ribs, no problem, life is busy. They even have Applications to help people get better organized so they can do more and do it faster. This seems to be the wave of the future as the world becomes more crowded and more competitive.

     

    Getting back to videography though, my first video camera was given to me. i.e., FREE. Since then, though, I've dumped a lot of money - a lot more than I thought I ever would - into chasing the elusive "better video clips". They say it's all in the person behind the camera, and there's a lot of truth in that, but hey, those bells and whistles and accessories give one more degrees of freedom.

     

    One problem though, it takes a lot of time to really learn how to use all the equipment. Videography is shooting a moving target and if it isn't scripted you don't get a second chance so you can't sit there trying to get the settings to make it work, and that's just talking about the video camera. But it's everything - the lighting, the set, the subject(s), and probably the most important part, the story you're trying to tell.

     

    Our new videography club has, kinda, two camps: the Professional and semi-pro side and the other the iMovie side. What is interesting is the iMovie people ALL are story tellers (in our club) while the pro-types, a couple who make full-length movies, are more into the equipment side and work with script writers and actors and tend, it seems to me, to be less, (I'm trying to say this in a nice way) shall we say, capable? involved? whatever, in the message than the iMovie folks.

     

    Also one thing of interest, while I'm writing this, one of the iMovie folks is a PhD and is a professor at a local college. She has the class use their iPhone and for the application it's iMovie. The class is something like storytelling or movie making but I don't remember the details. She has also won an award with a documentary. Come to think of it, I think that is what the class that she teaches is about. She is joining the club to become more savvy about the technical aspects of videography.

     

    What I was trying to convey in my post was to try to reign ones self in on the initial spending. Case in point, one nice prosumer $1,500 video camera I was looking at when I got my first (free) one, only about a year later was going used in the 7 to $800 range. That represents a big loss, and I still have my little free camera, and the $65 one (only bought it to get the battery charger because the free one didn't come with one). But I've since acquired a whole bunch of other stuff - mics, tripod, unipod, lights, Glidecam, you name it, and currently the biggest bottleneck is learning FCPX and trying to get past all the little learning problems.

     

    Speaking of FCPX, that is one of the very few things I've bought new, and the video tripod and a camera light being the others.

     

    With good mics, just make sure they aren't a Chinese counterfeit. Do the research and be careful.

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