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Major UI Lag in Logic Pro 9.1.7 on OS 10.8?

65160 Views 888 Replies Latest reply: Mar 31, 2014 1:50 PM by The Art Of Sound RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • Nusskappe Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 3:47 AM (in response to Mark Lindsey)

    Last entry for this issue was 10th April this year. Does that means that all of you have lost your hopes that Apple will fix this issue? Perhaps you have no interest in Logic anymore? I still have some hope that Apple will provide a fix, e.g. with next ML update or even in Logic. Even if my MacPro still performs excellent with SL and Logic, I know that one day the Hardware will have its first malfunctions. Also the day when malfunctions cannot be repaired anymore will come. Currently I have no idea in which direction I should move to achieve a relieble setup for the future.

  • gen_ Level 2 Level 2 (335 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 4:17 AM (in response to Nusskappe)

    I had a big long think about it, got my hands on a 'developer unit' running a i7 3930k six-core system to compare side by side with the DP Mac Pro I was already leasing... realised that if the DP Mac Pro was faster, it was by such an incompreshensably small margin that I would never notice. (Sure it's got more raw power, but that is spread over two processors a good distance from each other so the effective power is much the same). UI lag is gone.

     

    At this point I have never had this problem on the dev unit, and the only issue I have on both the Pro and the dev is this new 'sudden motion sensor' issue. Other than that the dev runs better than the MP aside a non-working sleep (not an issue; 11sec boot time). Funny because both are running SSDs (I cloned the drive to a spinning disk to see if that was the fault and the same happend, I also used terminal to make sure SMS was disabled on the Mac Pro and still no dice, the dev unit doesn't even have this item in the list, different drivers I guess).

     

    End result, faster cheaper, not as easy on the eyes but a **** sight more than worth it so far. The lease isnt even up for the Mac Pro and I've stopped using it, and my wariness of being banned on this site has seen me abstain from being here despite it being legal in my country (I won't say what it is but I'm sure you understand).

  • battlegimp Calculating status...
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    May 14, 2013 4:44 AM (in response to Nusskappe)

    I would say I have lost all faith in Apple. My perception of them as a company has completely changed (I like to tell people that all the time now) and I am dubious about buying any more of their products. In the time I've had the issue, I actually went Android for my tablet, Windows Phone for my Phone and Dell for a new laptop. There you go Apple, that's my response.

     

    I have given up waiting for a fix. I am stunned we've been left out in the cold like this for such an unreasonably long time. I think if they do fix the lag issue, it will be as a result of a fluke rather than intent. The issue is still there really badly for me.

     

    The concept of buying a Mac because it just works, is a joke.

  • hypnotik Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 5:28 AM (in response to battlegimp)

    The lag is still here too.

     

    Fun fact, i run logic on two computers, Mac pro and Macbook pro. Always had this lag behavior on the two, and especially a new behavior introduced by 10.8.3 which is : when i move an EQ point on the Channel EQ (without analyzer enabled) the graphic didn't refresh as fast as the values (hz, Q) in the lower part of the plugin.

     

    Then i had to reinstall completely my Macbook pro yesterday, i've backed up the Logic app (single copy to ext drive) and copied it to my fresh install.

     

    Now i don't experience anymore the behavior i just describe, but the lag seems to be here (can't confirm 100%)

     

    For the record this problem is here since 10.7 !  It's crazy that Apple didn't do something positive since years.......just b*llsh*t with a "fix" acting like a placebo !

     

    I've also remarked the lag is very pronounced when i'm using VPS PhiltaXL, GlissEQ, Geist, VPS MultibandCompressor, and many others....What's the common factor between all these plugins ? Graphic/Animation activity inside the plugin.

     

    I'm waiting for Apple, but i don't have much hope regarding us (Pro users).

    Please keep this thread alive as much as you can.

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 7:55 AM (in response to Nusskappe)

    Keep sending specifics to Apple so they can keep tracking it down on the systems that have the issue.  Problems that are harder to reproduce are harder to fix, and fewer people are having the issue since the last update.

  • Nusskappe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 8:02 AM (in response to Mike Connelly)

    Are you sure? I think that people have stopped to hope for a fix and that would be the reason why noone complains anymore.

     

    If Apple cannot reproduce a serious error in their software, it is probably not a good idea to use apple equipment anymore.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 8:09 AM (in response to Mike Connelly)


    Mike Connelly wrote:

     

    Keep sending specifics to Apple so they can keep tracking it down on the systems that have the issue.  Problems that are harder to reproduce are harder to fix, and fewer people are having the issue since the last update.

    People have been "sending specifics" for over 2 years. I doesn't take 2 years to "fix" anything. If the iPad developed an issue it would be fixed in record time...period. Apple's pro consumer has taken a back seat and is schedueled for a slow death by ignoring them until they "get the message". (eg: Mac Pro, no significant model updates in over 3 years, can't even buy a Mac Pro in europe now due to some technical bs.) Actions speak louder than words.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 8:15 AM (in response to Nusskappe)

    Nusskappe wrote:

     

    Are you sure? I think that people have stopped to hope for a fix and that would be the reason why noone complains anymore.

     

    If Apple cannot reproduce a serious error in their software, it is probably not a good idea to use apple equipment anymore.

     

    Logic has had no significant updates in over 3 years. Just placebo's. The Lag problem with Logic (going on what...2 and a half years now?) is not simply important enough to Apple's big picture bottom line. Period. No ones posts here anymore because it's pointless. Again actions speak louder that words.

     

    She doesn't love you anymore....get the message... take a hint...move on. Sometimes you don't need for someone or something to officially state their intentions. Actions speak louder than words.

  • -mark- Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    May 14, 2013 8:51 AM (in response to Mark Lindsey)

    Not sure they abandoned us but I personally was not thrilled with the lag issue and how its been handled. With that being said I have heard some interesting rumors on Logic X and seems that announcement should be within the next few months, likely before end of summer and possibly end of May. One thing i'm 100 percent expecting is a new advanced sampler. Last year Apple purchased Redmatica and closed the site down. From what I know about Redmatica is simply fantastic. You can plug your VST or Hardware synth and with in a few clicks you can have its entire range sampled with velocity settings 1-127 if you want to get crazy. This will change the way most of us use Hardware and software, saving massive amounts of CPU in regards to instruments. From what i gathered it will also sample VST with FX as well. I wish i could have purchased the product before Apple did. Thanks alot APPLE!

     

    http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/06/08/apple-acquired-music-editing-software-fir m-redmatica-closes-product-support-will-end-on-12-june/

     

    Thats about all I should say so I dont get deleted.

     

    I have been so dissapointed in Logic the last year i feel somewhat excited but soured by Logic 9. Lets hope they right the wrong with something amazing this year.

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
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    May 14, 2013 10:09 AM (in response to MadDog15)

    MadDog15 wrote:

     

    People have been "sending specifics" for over 2 years.

     

    And in that time they have made some updates that have solved the problem for some users.  If you're still having the problem after those updates, then getting in touch with Apple is going to be more helpful than not doing that.

     

    It stinks that this problem still exists for some users.  I know you don't want to hear this, but other users have had it fixed, that's an actual solution for them, not a placebo.  And yes, with any software than has issues that only effect some users, that's harder to reproduce.  For anyone who doesn't have this problem, it is hard to get it to happen, so it seems to be specific to some systems but not others.  Again, this isn't something people want to hear, but after the last update quite a few people reported it was fixed, and that's probably at least part of the reason that this topic has had less discussion.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 10:59 AM (in response to Mike Connelly)

    While I do appreciate your optimism I believe it's an understatement to say that I think a reality check is in order.

     

    Words:

    Apple has - and is in the process - of letting go of the Pro User market as a whole as they are no longer necessary to the bottom line.

     

    Actions:

    That's why there's been no Logic X release just band-aid's for three years. That's why the Mac Pro has been dying a slow and silent death for three years. That's why THE mobile workstation of choice for Pro Users - the MacBook Pro 17" - has been eliminated from the line up. That's why one of the most respected and widely used editing applications - Final Cut Pro - was turned into a candy consumer beta app for $299.

     

    How many models/versions of iPhones and iPads have been completely rethought from the ground up, updated, rejuvenated and re-released, LIKE CLOCK WORK - in three years? Maybe the new iWatch will make Logic Pro run correctly.... fingers crossed!

     

    Some folks don't have the problem? Irrelevant. If the problem still exists, it still exists. If GPS on iPhone worked for some but not yet everyone...c'mon. That's why there's not as many posts here? Hello, they've given up and moved on. Everybody's not happily and speedily creating audio again as the problem has completely disappeared and life is good! I mean Really?

     

    Boom...Forest for the trees. This ain't just a Logic Pro thing just like Denile ain't no river in South Africa.

     

    Nothing personal Mike. Apologies extended. But I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone exhibits any optimism at this stage in the game for Apple's Logic Pro.... unless of course you work for Apple.

     

    If it's true that honest straight talk is seldom appreciated but sometimes necessary...Let's see how long it takes for this post to be deemed "inappropriate" and get deleted.

  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2013 11:42 AM (in response to MadDog15)

    MadDog15 wrote:

     

    Some folks don't have the problem? Irrelevant.

    Of course it's relevant.  The comment was made that Apple has made no fixes, but the fact is that there are users who used to have the problem who had it fixed by updates.  For someone who had it fixed, it's about as relevant as it gets for them.  It stinks that the problem still exists for some users, and apple should still fix it.  Sure, Apple hasn't made enough progress, but it's simply not true that they have made no progress.  Just because an update fixes something for some but not all doesn't make it a "placebo" - for those users it's a real fix, they're not still having the problem but hallucinating that everything is OK.  And yes, if someone is having the problem and posting about it, when they do get a fix they are going to stop posting that they have the problem.  Yes, some people with the problem gave up and moved on, but that's not the case with everyone.  Unfortunately we have no way of really knowing how widespread the problem is, maybe it's 30% of Logic users and maybe it's less than 1%.  We just don't know.

  • sflogicninja Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 15, 2013 12:37 AM (in response to Mark Lindsey)

    Hey there folks,

     

    Just my personal experience here, maybe some of this will help.

     

    I score to picture a lot. To lessen the lag issue I have found the following to help:

     

    1. Convert mp4 movies to 422 ProRez

     

         This will keep the processor from decoding the movie in realtime, and speed up performance overall.

     

    2. Do not use the video track in global tracks

     

         Disabling the video global track has increased the performance greatly, and lessened the GUI lag.

     

    3. If possible, tweak plugins in a separate monitor

     

         This only works in a multi-monitor setup. I find that if you open your plugin windows in another screen, the GUI lag lessens. It also helps to dediate that screen to plugin use. I have a screenset that I use just for intense tweaking that has an arrange window on the left and open desktop on the right

     

    4. If on a single monitor, do not tweak plugins while the mixer is open

     

         Don't ask why. This is bizzare.

     

    I will log other things to help mitigate the problem. They aren't magic bullets, of course... but I've been able to produce 3 albums, score a film, and much, much more without feeling completely hamstrung.

     

    This GUI....or whatever the **** it is.... problem is certainly a royal pain in the ***. if I can think of other solutions I've stumbled across, I will let you know.

     

    Now, as for 32 vs. 64 bit...

     

    In 64 bit mode some of the environment objects do not work correctly.

    In 64 bit mode, many of the movie capabilities no longer work, (can't bounce audio to movie)

    In 64 bit mode some global track functions do not work correctly

     

    There are some other things I've found, but none of them kept me from still getting work done. For those working in film, this can be very important, though. i find it incredibly helpful to send sample movies to clients of my work so they don't have to line the music up manually....

     

    I do find the cpu efficiancy and overall performance enhancement much better in 64bit mode, even though I find the occasional gremlin. For those who aren't using much RAM, I suppose 32 bit could still be cool if they are using mostly synths... but even Omnisphere, Reaktor, Kontakt, Play, etc, etc... they are sample based, so you need to be sure that whatever RAM allocation solution they use is compatible. (Such as Kontakt memory server for example)

     

    I understand people wanting to jump to a platform that seems more stable. Believe me, i have thought about it many times... I know several composers who have already jumped ship... it's sad for me because i was the one who helped them switch to logic when logic made the jump to 8. :-(

  • The Art Of Sound Level 5 Level 5 (5,670 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 15, 2013 5:55 AM (in response to sflogicninja)

    sflogicninja wrote:

     

    In 64 bit mode some of the environment objects do not work correctly.

    In 64 bit mode, many of the movie capabilities no longer work, (can't bounce audio to movie)

    In 64 bit mode some global track functions do not work correctly

     

     

    Can you please give some specific examples of all of the above as the only problem I have had in 64bit mode is the issue with bouncing audio to a movie which is a stated limitiation of running in 64bit mode...

     

    In particular, I'm curious as to the Global Track functions you say, do not work correctly in 64bit mode but work fine in 32bit mode..... and I'd like to hear about the other 64bit related issues you mentioned too.

     

    Thanks in advance...

  • sflogicninja Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2013 1:36 AM (in response to The Art Of Sound)

    The Art Of Sound wrote:

     

    sflogicninja wrote:

     

    In 64 bit mode some of the environment objects do not work correctly.

    In 64 bit mode, many of the movie capabilities no longer work, (can't bounce audio to movie)

    In 64 bit mode some global track functions do not work correctly

     

     

    Can you please give some specific examples of all of the above as the only problem I have had in 64bit mode is the issue with bouncing audio to a movie which is a stated limitiation of running in 64bit mode...

     

    In particular, I'm curious as to the Global Track functions you say, do not work correctly in 64bit mode but work fine in 32bit mode..... and I'd like to hear about the other 64bit related issues you mentioned too.

     

    Thanks in advance...

    Sure!

     

    Example of environment objects working in weird ways - I have had some signal flows stop working when in 64bit mode. The easiest to recreate is converting 4 channels of vector fader control data into fader data. It simply doesn't work. Somehow the vector faders are hobbled.

     

    Example of movie issues/Global Track issues - Besides the bouncing audio to movie, try to detect cuts in the video track. It won't work. If you open in 32bit, it magically will. Sometimes using frame markers for beatmapping will have disastrous results as well. I have also had itermittent problems with audio from the movie playing and phasing against imported audio, but this is an easy thing to correct manually.

     

    There are plenty of other little things I have found and reported. They are on the priority sheets. Not deal breakers, but i am mindful of 'em.

     

    I really should write them down, but I'm usually busting my ***. :-)

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