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  • 75. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    brainburst Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    "I agree that optical would've been a nice option to have, but I don't see how the advantages of it would benefit   99% of consumers out there at this point in time, especially given that Thunderbolt 2 connections allow the new Mac Pro to play real time 4K video content off such devices, and there are few higher bandwidth uses of data transfer than 4K video at this point in time.

     

    You must be blind then. Optical is cheaper for consumers. Much Faster. All around better. Being passive optical cables don't fail unless physically broken. I've had a half dozen thunderbolt cables fail. And blown two thunder bolt ports. (Covered under warranty fortunately.) Optical connections don't have this problem. They are passive. Only the sensors are active. Light doesn't cause arcing or shorts.

    Apple is one of the OEMs being referenced, one of the loudest voices talking to intel. Being early adopters they could have easily supported an optical interface that would have actually been nearly future proof. I find it amusing that h e new mac pro has 6 thunderbolt 2.0 ports all of which COMBINED are just 1.5x the bandwidth of a single PCIe 3.0 x16 slot. (And no they can't be combined. Uch the new mac pro *****)

  • 76. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Cyberwlf Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Not referring to the cost of cables here. I'm talking about the bandwidth requirements of the users here. You're saying it's much faster, sure, no one would question that, but i've also given an example that 4K video has no bandwidth issues when used with the Thunderbolt 2 ports Apple are sporting on the Mac Pro. 4K Video is usually the peak benchmark disk speed applications use in benchmark tests, so do you have any examples of higher data bandwidth applications that the average consumer uses to benefit from this faster data? (Keeping in mind that 4K video is still far from getting close to any level of mainstream adoption)

     

    P.S. I get that you've had more than your fair share of hassles from what you've said with Thunderbolt, so it's understandable you're irritated, but the problem sounds more like a manufacturating / quality control issue in your case

  • 77. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    brainburst Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    You are missing the point completely.
    It's not just the cost of the cables, its the cost of the entire ecosystem! Optical interconnect would have made everything ultimately cheaper AND more reliable, AND futureproof.

  • 78. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Cyberwlf Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I was responding to your points over speed and its relevance to users. Cheaper would've been a great thing though. As things went, Apple made a decision that at the time likely made the most sense to them (probably a mixture of technology and cost), the power issue is a relevant one, optical had not solved that problem and copper was a solution to that problem, and I can't see Apple having chosen the optical route when they knew it wouldn't suit what they felt the user's needed at that time, even if now, in 2013, we are seeing things moving towards optical, now. That said, neither of us work for Apple, nor know the actual factors considered when they made these decisions. What we do know is it's 2013 and we still don't have Thunderbolt hubs, we only have docks, the same kind of thing Sony did back in 2011 with this technology, but using optical. Maybe having optical might have changed this, but given hubs often support devices that draw power there would've been technical issues that an optical version of Thunderbolt would've created too. 

  • 79. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Stephen Lang Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    So it appears a Thunderbolt hub with ports to attach multiple TB devices is not possible, due to the Thunderbolt standard itself. However it is possible to create hub that has Firewire and other ports, along with an additional TB port to daisy-chain additional TB devices.

     

    It would be nice if Apple (or another company), offered a TB to Firewire or TB to DVI/HDMI/etc. adapter with the extra TB port to daisy chain additional TB devices. Nothing fancy, keep it small and simple and (relatively) cheap.

     

    If you own a MBA and want an external display and say a FW external drive, it's not possible unless you buy a $300 hub, or the $1000 Apple TB Display. That's quite a premium to pay, for a relatively ordinary configuration.

  • 80. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (35,445 points)

    Belkin Thunderbolt Hub

     

    • Connect 8 separate devices to your laptop through a single Thunderbolt cable (Cable sold separately)
    • 1 Thunderbolt port to connect to laptop
    • 1 Thunderbolt port to connect Thunderbolt devices (Daisy-chain up to 5 devices through one port)
    • 1 Gigabit Ethernet port
    • 1 FireWire 800 port
    • 1 3.5mm Headphone Output Jack
    • 1 3.5mm Audio Input Jack
    • 3 USB 3.0 ports (data transfer at 2.5Gbps max)
    • Powered USB 3.0 Ports support USB Charging (500mA)

     

     

    Screen Shot 2013-07-23 at 4.12.51 PM.png

  • 81. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    xgrep Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    If you own a MBA and want an external display and say a FW external drive, it's not possible unless you buy a $300 hub, or the $1000 Apple TB Display. That's quite a premium to pay, for a relatively ordinary configuration.

     

    Yup, that's my complaint exactly. I don't even mind that TB has such constraints, or that the only solutions involve $300 products, but Apple removed any other way to connect devices (except for USB 2.0, which isn't very good for fast devices). At least they might've had more than one TB port on a MacBook Air. So here I am with an array of nice FW800 disks that I can't use without unplugging the 22" monitor that's hogging the only TB port. This is not one of Apple's more user-friendly technical improvements.

  • 82. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    brainburst Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    I just love iot when people assume that other people are ignorant and post so called solutions that don't address the point being raised initially! That belkin box is expensive and doesn't do everything it needs to. It can't give you more bandwidth than the upstream thunderbolt port. And it's still thunderbolt based which has all of the problems i have referenced before. Nice try!

  • 83. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Stephen Lang Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)

    The only positive thing I will say about the MBA and this current limitation regarding multiple peripherals and the TB port, is I guess at least this option is open to us now- compared to last year's MBA with only USB ports.

     

    I hope that at some point, cheaper adapters will become availabe of the sort I described- a simple Firewire or DVI adapter with a 2nd TB port...

  • 84. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (35,445 points)

    brainburst wrote:

     

    I just love iot when people assume that other people are ignorant and post so called solutions that don't address the point being raised initially! That belkin box is expensive and doesn't do everything it needs to. It can't give you more bandwidth than the upstream thunderbolt port. And it's still thunderbolt based which has all of the problems i have referenced before. Nice try!

    I just love it when people post claiming to know what everyone else wants. Nothing has more bandwidth than Thunderbolt. If you can't afford one go without

     

    Nobody called you ignorant but you displayed quite a lot of it in that post.

  • 85. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    xgrep Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The issue here is that there is no reasonable-cost way to get high-speed data on an Apple product with one Thunderbolt port, and we have had to wait two years for even the few high-cost solutions. Constantly proposing high-priced solutions to a problem that previously didn't even exist is not helpful, and at the very least appears to be condescending, whether intended that way or not.

     

    I previously had a very nice MacBook Pro with FW800, for which there were numerous peripherals at decent prices. I now have a MacBook Air with a single TB port, and no way to use many of my peripherals (aside from USB 2.0) without spending several hundred dollars on one of the hub devices, none of which do everything that I want. And, to make matters worse, we've had to wait two years for them. This is, to understate the problem, a sub-optimal situation.

     

    I will be *very* careful in the future to delay purchase of Apple products (and not rely on promises) until it's clear that they will meet my needs. In the case of my current MacBook Air, had I known what I do now, I would not have bought it. Two years is way too long to find out that it still doesn't meet all of my requirements (and possibly never will).

  • 86. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    cpage Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    xgrep wrote:

     

    The issue here is that there is no reasonable-cost way to get high-speed data on an Apple product with one Thunderbolt port, and we have had to wait two years for even the few high-cost solutions. Constantly proposing high-priced solutions to a problem that previously didn't even exist is not helpful, and at the very least appears to be condescending, whether intended that way or not.

     

    I previously had a very nice MacBook Pro with FW800, for which there were numerous peripherals at decent prices. I now have a MacBook Air with a single TB port, and no way to use many of my peripherals (aside from USB 2.0) without spending several hundred dollars on one of the hub devices, none of which do everything that I want. And, to make matters worse, we've had to wait two years for them. This is, to understate the problem, a sub-optimal situation.

     

    I will be *very* careful in the future to delay purchase of Apple products (and not rely on promises) until it's clear that they will meet my needs. In the case of my current MacBook Air, had I known what I do now, I would not have bought it. Two years is way too long to find out that it still doesn't meet all of my requirements (and possibly never will).

     

    Well put.

  • 87. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (35,445 points)

    xgrep wrote:

     

    The issue here is that there is no reasonable-cost way to get high-speed data on an Apple product with one Thunderbolt port, and we have had to wait two years for even the few high-cost solutions. Constantly proposing high-priced solutions to a problem that previously didn't even exist is not helpful, and at the very least appears to be condescending, whether intended that way or not.

    Of course it didn't previously exist, until TB existed the issue did not, that is no surprise.

     

    As TB is a daisy chain system why not use it as designed, 1 port, up to 7 devices supported. And lest you forget all of the previous options still exist, TB is an additional one (just like USB3)

     

    You seem to be saying that TB doesn't work the way you would like it to, and is too expensive. Why not stick with Firewire in that case?

  • 88. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    xgrep Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    You seem to be saying that TB doesn't work the way you would like it to, and is too expensive. Why not stick with Firewire in that case?

    You are absolutely correct in what I am saying. And, as I said, had I known in Nov 2011 what I now know, instead of believing promises of many TB devices soon to come, I would not have bought my MBA, and would've kept the MBP with FW800 and waited to see what else Apple was going to do.

     

    Saying "why not stick with Firewire" is not a helpful suggestion (and it appears condescending, even if it wasn't intended that way). What would you propose now? That instead of spending $300 for a TB hub, I spend $2000 for an Apple product of some sort so that I can somehow get Firewire capability again? Better yet, I could maybe spend $10M on a modified DeLorean with new flux capacitors so that I can go back in time and warn myself to keep the MBP and not buy the MBA (and I could still use the DeLorean to shop for groceries).

     

    Stop blaming the victims for "failing to understand what TB is" while claiming to not be disappointed because you knew what you were getting into. Apple didn't pull this off well, and they and everyone else know it. We also know that there's no good way to fix it other than to wait until economies of scale bring prices down and selection of products up (which is the normal cycle for all new technologies). That will happen, but it's taken far longer than anyone wanted (Apple and Intel included).

  • 89. Re: Thunderbolt Hubs and docking stations
    Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (35,445 points)

    Firewire exists on all Apple devices using the TB to FW adaptor it also exists on most Apple devices from before TB debuted. Frankly I don't see the issue.

     

    instead of believing promises of many TB devices soon to come

     

    Who promised you that, and do you know how many TB devices already exist?

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