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The new Mac Pro

25118 Views 461 Replies Latest reply: Mar 31, 2014 3:40 PM by Marsdy RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • Apple_Mac_Daddy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jun 10, 2013 8:33 PM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    I'm really confused as to why you guys released a workstation without buit in PCIe support? What about those users who need higher end graphics solutions than you offer? You could fit double wide PCIe graphics cards in the old MP, but now you'll have to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on top of the machine to get something that should have been built in? And it won't be nearly as fast..... Workstation users, and I believe I speak for a good portion of them, don't give a **** about the size, they give a **** about power and expandability. Why sacrifice usable size? You're definitely not winning over any workstation users with this, and you'll be hard pressed to keep the ones you have. Sure, I think the new Mac Pro is cool and it has a revolutionary design, but at the expense of so much power and ability to expand that it's not funny. The aesthetic design of the tower is the last consideration for a workstation.

  • Allan Eckert Level 8 Level 8 (39,450 points)
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    Jun 10, 2013 8:46 PM (in response to Apple_Mac_Daddy)
  • SiniScope Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jun 10, 2013 9:21 PM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    I realize there are a lot of people who will not like the new design from the look (which I have seen some very funny posts on the design) to the nature of the external upgrades and they definitely have some valid concerns. I used to produce the human resource and safety videdos for what is now First Energy and I had to have a PowerMac simply for it's expandability. But I am now a game developer and no longer need most of the expandability I used to thus prefacing the rest of my post.

     

    I have used Apple's Pro machines since the PowerMac 6100 and have upgraded at regular intervals from then on. I loved the look of the original PowerMac G5 and that look has been great since then moving into the Mac Pro's. I watched the keynote in hopes of some sort of glimpse of a new Mac Pro. When Phil introduced the video, I was very excited to see what Apple came up with. I felt like a little kid again, well, an almost 40 year old kid. But I have to admit that though I was looking for something totally different, I love the new design. Yes, it looks like a robot or trash can to some But the simplicity of the design and the engineering involved is amazing to me. I really like it. I am not sure about innovative as I think that term is used a lot today and can be interpreted in different ways when it comes to design and functionality.

     

    Just the engineering involved appeals to me. The design reminds me of a modern version of the G4 Cube. But of course the cube is now a cylinder. OK, maybe a bad parallel.

     

    Say what you will as we all have our opinions and we are definitely entitled to them, but I like the new design. Just my opinion as I was interested in reading all of the replies here and I definitely understand how others feel. But I just really like it. I have no idea how well this thing will be accepted by those who need, and are used to, mostly internal upgrades, but I hope it does well. I think this will be a bit polarizing.

  • Patrick Hernalsteen Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
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    Jun 10, 2013 11:46 PM (in response to SiniScope)

    At first i was happy. Yes, Apple has not abandonned the pros. But then i realized, No, Apple doesn't understand the pros need anymore. One more time for the design, they drop a lot of things. The Mac Pro i smaller, it just means that we will have a lot more stuff outside the MacPro whick takes more place. It will also cost a lot more. Before, i just needed a Mac Pro. Now i need a Mac Paro AND a lot of external stotage boxes, AND external PCIe to thunderbolt boxes AND a DVD player. It's at least 1000$ more and a lot of boxes and cables. Also, i'm not sure that we can use external GPUs on external PCIe to Thunderbolt. Till here it was impossible to use them for graphic cards, will it change? But above all, i ask myself why? Why have they do that? What was the problem with the old, sturdy, expandable MacPro? We just needed thunderbolt, USB3 and power. Why changing what works??? But it's pretty, will they answer.

  • Shaun Ferguson Level 2 Level 2 (180 points)
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    Jun 11, 2013 1:39 AM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    All they needed to add was thunderbolt, usb3 and maybe change the look - what was wrong with having the possibility of adding drives etc? And why ditch firewire 800? No DVD drive?

    It's all very pretty, but by squashing it all into this cylinder have they excluded all possibility of adding components, as in the present MacPro?

    I am bothered that this is going to be a case of design over functionality and that pretty looks and clever shapes will not provide the advanced features that an improved MacPro should.

  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jun 11, 2013 2:06 AM (in response to Allan Eckert)

    For a PCIe expansion box check out

    http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/PCIe_Chassis/Mercury_Helios_Accelsior _E2/

     

    Allan

     

     

    this is PCIe 2.0 x8 only... and I doubt that there will be a proper x16 support.

    this machine is unusable for gpu work related stuff

     

    i want to add 2-4 nvidia titans ! this costs $1000 each already

    and IF there is an expansion this will add a load of $$ on top of it


    also just one CPU?

    sigh... totally unusable for me

     

    but ok if you do just iphoto.

    thats where we came w the "pro" line

     

    Sini Scope ...

    Say what you will as we all have our opinions and we are definitely entitled to them, but I like the new design. Just my opinion as I was interested in reading all of the replies here and I definitely understand how others feel. But I just really like it. I have no idea how well this thing will be accepted by those who need, and are used to, mostly internal upgrades, but I hope it does well. I think this will be a bit polarizing.

     

    this is not about opinions. this is about professionals with companies, running expensive software...

    they are forced to leave the mac platform now... this is what this is about !



  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jun 11, 2013 3:38 AM (in response to FatMac\>MacPro)

    cant edit my posts anymore? is this thread locked?

     

    anyway... i really hope you guys at apple still have some cards in your sleeve...

     

    a dual CPU version

    an internal PCIe 3.0 port usable for GPU expansion

    keeping the old mac pro chassis with updated hardware as a side line

    ...

     

    im so happy i bought the last mac pro released...

    gives me still some time to think about my strategy with hardware.

  • The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,595 points)
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    Jun 11, 2013 7:32 AM (in response to zachi)

    If a thread changed while you were replying / if the time from the post to when you try update/edit is more than n-minutes (10? 15? does it vary for different people?) as I get that error too.

     

    Speculation of will there be low end single graphic card and only the top BTO configuration will have two make sense, just as there are likely and have to be 4-8-12 core configurations and probably a 6-core as well.

     

    RAM upgrades and changes - just knowing is it "user accessible" would help quel some fears.

     

    Maybe AMD is available and ready and Nvidia could be BTO and provide CUDA processing for gpgpu.

     

    Having to use external boxes for your 5x4TB RAID.

     

    What about replacing the boot drive? booting from another drive would have to be external as well?

     

    Maybe the NSA needs small, low energy boxes (err, cylinders) and is a large customer, huh?

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
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    Jun 11, 2013 8:28 AM (in response to zachi)

    a dual CPU version

    The two-chip solution was a Hack to get to the real prize, which was 8 to 12 real processors plus Multi-Threading.

     

    It looks like Intel will be supplying 12 processors on one [really HOT] chip in the new line, so two-chip solutions are not needed until you have requirements for even more processors. Multi-chip solutions suffer unbearable wasted cycles in coordinating the two chips, and are unnecessarily complex and expensive.


    an internal PCIe 3.0 port usable for GPU expansion

    There does not look to be an Internal PCIe slot for graphics expansion, but you could add a ThunderBolt chassis that supports one or two PCIe cards (available today from Sonnet tech).

     

    keeping the old mac pro chassis with updated hardware as a side line

    Apple has decided that SATA 6G bits/sec (nominal 750MBytes/sec) is too limiting for the future. They are betting on ThunderBolt 2 at 20G bits/sec (nominal 2.5G Bytes/sec) as their main connection method.

     

    The first four SATA drive bays are gone, and you have to move to an external disk Drive enclosure right away. Low end users can use single USB-3, High-end users will go straight to a multi-drive ThunderBolt enclosure.

     

    They did provide a proprietary Boot Drive "bay" and populated it with an SSD-on-a-card.

     

    --------

     

    In the past, the older models of Mac Pro did not disappear. They did not even decline in price more than a few hundred dollars. They are likley to be readily available as refurbs and as used Macs for quite a while.

     

    .

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
  • Allan Eckert Level 8 Level 8 (39,450 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 8:53 AM (in response to zachi)

    Personally I don't see how you managed to get that much information from what little was said but if that is read on then I am sorry for you.

     

    Allan

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 9:07 AM (in response to zachi)

    Sonnet tech make a serious ThunderBolt PCIe expansion chassis, available now:

     

    echochassis_overview.png

     

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresschassis.html

     

    .

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 9:13 AM (in response to zachi)

    also just one CPU?

    The two-chip solution was a Hack to get to the real prize, which was 8 to 12 real processors plus Multi-Threading.

     

    It looks like Intel will be supplying 12 processors on one chip in the new line, so two-chip solutions are not needed until you have requirements for even more processors. Multi-chip solutions suffer unbearable wasted cycles in coordinating the two chips, and are unnecessarily complex, expensive, and HOT.

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (48,140 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 9:32 AM (in response to Shaun Ferguson)

    Buy this expansion chassis and get back the interfaces you crave, including DVD reader, one SATA drive and lots of ports:

     

    prodhdr_echo15tbdock.jpg

     

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo15thunderboltdock.html

     

    .

    Mac Pro (Early 2009), Mac OS X (10.6.8), & Server, PPC, & AppleTalk Printers
  • The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,595 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 9:43 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)

    Sounds like someone will be ready when the day comes...

  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 11, 2013 9:43 AM (in response to Grant Bennet-Alder)
    Jun 11, 2013 9:07 AM (in response to zachi)

    Sonnet tech make a serious ThunderBolt PCIe expansion chassis, available now:

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresschassis.html

     

     

    the Sonnet tech Echo Express Pro is not really supporting 2 gpus (Titans for example)

    at least powerwise cerainly not. but seems to support two PCIe 16x cards...

    at least this seems possible now!

    this is the first small spark of hope in this subject, thanks grant !

     

    maybe there will be a gpu dedicated expansion chassis on the market soon.

     

    see also here :

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-graphics-thunderbolt,3263.html

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