Don Hayes

Q: Time Machine restore point failure - a WARNING!

I have an iMac 21.5", Late 2012, which has spontaneously died three times, so Apple are going to replace it (and good on them for that too!). Usual question from the Genius Bar techo - 'do you have a backup you can restore from, or should we data migrate for you?'

 

The iMac (10.8.2) in question has had, since it was installed in December 2012, an external HDD, selected as (and exclusively so) the Time Machine backup drive. It has faithfully done its backups once a day daily (using Time Machine Editor to adjust frequency of backups). I've used it to 'go back in time' to restore various files over the past six months no problem. Looking into the mounted sparesimage you can see and access the dailies. This iMac had gone through 10.8.2 > 10.8.3 > 10.8.4 updates before it died.

 

So, to be able to answer the Genius Bar techo, I hooked it up to my 10.8.4 iMac, booted into the recovery partition, selected Restore from TM backup option for this drive, and found out that the last actual 'restore point' was actually months ago!!! Even though TM had been dutifully and (proven) done the TM backups, it's official 'restore point' is actually way months - so all the data accumulated/changed since then is actually not restorable through Migration Assistant, and would have to manually restored piecemeal from the retsore point!!

 

Bottom line: in this particular case, the HDD is OK - so a clone from the old drive to the new iMac's drive is OK. However, had the old iMac's drive failed in any way, the daily Time Machine backup would have been worthless as a 'restore-and-go' backup.

 

So - be warned: check the state of your Time Machine backup by looking to see what it's last 'restore point' actually is. If it isn't your last backup, as far as i can tell, deleting the current TM backup, and starting over again is the only way forward for a 'restore point' backup; if you need the incrementals, then get a new backup drive and harness that.

 

[Notes: I'm talking from a purely Mountain Lion perspective - I can't say for other iterations Leopard-onwards.

 

Also, for the record, my other iMac's external third-party backup drive recently failed and was replaced, and the (now) 10.8.3 > 10.8.4 TM backup restore point is today current from that point forward - so I can't give another historical perspective on whether it was a particular update that might have caused the restore point issue].

Posted on Jun 11, 2013 12:32 AM

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Q: Time Machine restore point failure - a WARNING!

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  • by Pondini,

    Pondini Pondini Jun 28, 2013 8:49 AM in response to San Lewy
    Level 8 (38,747 points)
    Jun 28, 2013 8:49 AM in response to San Lewy

    San Lewy wrote:

     

    After looking further at my system, it appears to me that all my weekly backups are available, good and showing in TM - but that those weekly backups since 5/4/2013 are not appearing in the list displayed on a cmd-R restart.  So ... I don't know exactly how I would proceed if I needed to completely recover my system.

    You wouldn't. 

     

    The bacups look ok when you display stuff in your home folders, but not other places, such as Applications.

     

    There is a way to finagle getting your home folder out of the backups, but your extra Apple and 3rd-party apps would be gone; along with the various application support files in the top-level Library folder; plus most extra app serial numbers or purchase keys; system-wide widgets and internet extensions; printer, scanner, etc., drivers; system-wide settings, configuration, preferences; etc.

     

    So, please, call AppleCare back, with the Case Number they gave you.  Politely but firmly, insist on escalation to somebody who actually understands that without backups of Applications, Library, and the hidden private folder, there is no way to restore some of your stuff, and no easy way to restore your home folder(s).

     

    Refer them to my web page at: http://pondini.org/TM/D10.html   I'd be HAPPY to help explain and/or document it, via phone and/or e-mail.

     

    It has a bit of explanation, that something is putting the top-level folders in the ExcludeByPath section of the Time Machine plist at /Library/Preferences/com.apple.TimeMachine.plist

     

    That's different from the SkipPaths exclusions a user can make via the TM Preferences window, and is not shown there.

     

    What's causing it, we don't know yet.  But at least a couple of dozen folks have posted here or e-mailed me that they're affected, and I have the evidence from 6 or 7 (copies of the plist with those bogus exclusions).

     

    Keep us posted, please.

     

    Message was edited by: Pondini

  • by MooneyFlyer,

    MooneyFlyer MooneyFlyer Jun 28, 2013 9:59 AM in response to Pondini
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 28, 2013 9:59 AM in response to Pondini

    Thanks for the info. So far it's running smoothly but I don't want to tempt fate either -- especially while I have access to both boxes simultaneously.

     

    What is your advice?

    - Attempt to migrate from old machine to new using Thunderbolt cable (wifi didn't work) in target disk mode

    - Reinstall OS X on the machine now -- hopefully not touching all of the data I just moved (is that possible?)

    - Something else?

  • by Pondini,

    Pondini Pondini Jun 28, 2013 10:13 AM in response to MooneyFlyer
    Level 8 (38,747 points)
    Jun 28, 2013 10:13 AM in response to MooneyFlyer

    MooneyFlyer wrote:

     

    Thanks for the info. So far it's running smoothly but I don't want to tempt fate either -- especially while I have access to both boxes simultaneously.

     

    What is your advice?

    If I understand your situation, your Macs are fine at the moment -- so you don't need to restore anything.  Post back if that's not the case.

     

    What you need to do is fix your backups, so new ones do back up everything.  You can do that via #A4 in Time Machine - TroubleshootingThen if/when there's a problem on your Mac, you'll be able to restore either way.

     

    However, since running the fix will destroy some of the evidence of the problem, I'm asking you to contact AppleCare again first, so we can get them convinced there really is a problem, and start the engineers on a path to fix it, to protect other, unsuspecting users.

     

    If you don't want to do that, I'll understand.  If so, perhaps you'd consider at least sending me a copy of the file from your system, and the Case Number AppleCare assigned you, so I can at least try to convince them.  It's much harder that way, and they may not talk to me at all, since I don't know how to reproduce the problem myself.

     

    In the meantime, you might want to make a secondary backup of your system, via one of the alternatives in the green box of Time Machine - Frequently Asked Question #27.  That's always prudent, and will cover you in case a problem arises before Apple gets back to you.

  • by MooneyFlyer,

    MooneyFlyer MooneyFlyer Jun 28, 2013 11:00 AM in response to Pondini
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 28, 2013 11:00 AM in response to Pondini

    Hi -

     

      Actually, my question is a bit more simple:

     

    For the new machine that was installed via Time Machine from the old box and potentially the wrong OS -- can I simply attempt to update the OS right on the machine (ie, CMD-R, install OS X) without screwing up my data? Or, have I already borked things up badly and I need to start over with Migration Assistant?

     

    For AppleCare, I went through the Joint Venture Genius and I don't know if I have an case number. Because I was using an unsupported flow (Airport Extreme - USB drive), they weren't all that eager to blame TM. I'll try to check that out with them. I did call them back today and point them to the other thread about the problem and she claimed that she would push it up the chain...

     

    I can send you my file if you'd like... though my guess is that it looks the same.

     

      <key>ExcludeByPath</key>

            <array>

                    <string>/Applications</string>

                    <string>/Library</string>

                    <string>/System</string>

                    <string>/bin</string>

                    <string>/private</string>

                    <string>/sbin</string>

                    <string>/usr</string>

            </array>

  • by Pondini,

    Pondini Pondini Jun 28, 2013 11:08 AM in response to MooneyFlyer
    Level 8 (38,747 points)
    Jun 28, 2013 11:08 AM in response to MooneyFlyer

    MooneyFlyer wrote:

    . . .

    For the new machine that was installed via Time Machine from the old box and potentially the wrong OS -- can I simply attempt to update the OS right on the machine (ie, CMD-R, install OS X) without screwing up my data?

    Yes.    It just takes a while, because of the 4+ GB download.

     

    Or, have I already borked things up badly and I need to start over with Migration Assistant?

    No, you should be fine with a fresh version of OSX.

     

    For AppleCare, I went through the Joint Venture Genius and I don't know if I have an case number. Because I was using an unsupported flow (Airport Extreme - USB drive), they weren't all that eager to blame TM.

    Ah, yes, the old Airports weren't supported (the new "ac" models are, apparently).  But the problem there was corruption, not things being skipped.

     

     

    I'll try to check that out with them. I did call them back today and point them to the other thread about the problem and she claimed that she would push it up the chain...

    Ah, good!  Maybe that will actually happen, and help . . .

     

    I can send you my file if you'd like... though my guess is that it looks the same.

    Won't hurt, and will add to my collection.  Send to the address on my Contact page, and please identify yourself as MooneyFlyer and/or with a link to this thread, so I know who is who.

     

    Thanks!

     

    Message was edited by: Pondini

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