jasond85

Q: 4 TB Hard drive formatting default to Logical Volume Group

Hi All,

 

I have a 2009 Mac Pro and recently switched my hard drives around. I have an SSD in the lower drive bay below the DVD drive. I had a primary data drive in bay 1, a 2 tb Time Machine drive in bay 2, and 2 (1 TB) drives in Bays 3 and 4 working in Raid 0.

 

I bought a Seagate 4 TB drive (the 5900 rpm one) and took out the 2 RAID drives and the 1 TB data drive. My configuration now is, SSD in lower bay, 4 TB in bay 1, and 2 TB time machine in Bay 2.

 

Everything is working ok, but I can't figure out why when I initialized the 4 TB drive it defaulted to a Logical Volume Group. I am not sure if this is actually a problem, or something with above 2 TB drives in Mountain Lion. Anyone know why it is working this way? My SSD and 2 TB drive show Partition info and physical drive location in the Mac Pro, but the 4 TB doesn't even say it's a Seagate or show the model number and location. Just wanted to find out.

 

By the way, I had a difficult time putting the Seagate drive in bay 1. The connector kept hanging on something, and I ended up chipping away some plastic on the seagate connector to make it fit. I am mainly a WD buyer, so I took a chance on the Seagate this time.

Mac Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2), (Nehalem)

Posted on Jul 2, 2013 4:48 PM

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Q: 4 TB Hard drive formatting default to Logical Volume Group

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  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Jul 2, 2013 4:53 PM in response to jasond85
    Level 10 (271,691 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 2, 2013 4:53 PM in response to jasond85

    Now you know why Seagate has a technical support website and telephone number. But if I had to guess my guess is that your model does not support 4 TB drives (when your computer was designed there were no 4 TB drives; in fact, there were no 6 Gb/s drives which is why the SATA interface only supports 3.0 Gb/s.)

  • by jasond85,

    jasond85 jasond85 Jul 2, 2013 5:32 PM in response to Kappy
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 2, 2013 5:32 PM in response to Kappy

    So, are you saying that Mountain Lion is handling the drive as a Logical Volume Group because of the size? The 4 TB drive is working fine, and it is showing all of the 4 TB space available. I just wanted to verify that this was the way it was supposed to be handled by my Mac. It's the only drive above 2 TB that I have installed in it, so I wouldn't know how it handled anything larger.

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Jul 2, 2013 5:40 PM in response to jasond85
    Level 10 (271,691 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 2, 2013 5:40 PM in response to jasond85

    I don't know for sure because I don't know as much about your model as I know about the 2008 and earlier models. What the bus can handle depends upon the SATA controller chip, and based on what little I know of yours I don't believe it is able to handle that large a drive. If you put the drive in a suitable external enclosure it would probably work as expected. But finding an external enclosure that handles up to 4 TB drives isn't that easy.

     

    It's probable that you could simply partition the drive into two 2 TB volumes, but I'm not quite sure what Disk Utility is doing with your drive.

  • by Linc Davis,

    Linc Davis Linc Davis Jul 2, 2013 6:01 PM in response to jasond85
    Level 10 (208,022 points)
    Applications
    Jul 2, 2013 6:01 PM in response to jasond85

    Triple-click anywhere in the line below to select it:

    { diskutil list; echo; diskutil cs list; } | open -f -a TextEdit

      

    Copy the selected text to the Clipboard (command-C).

     

    Launch the Terminal application in any of the following ways:

     

    ☞ Enter the first few letters of its name into a Spotlight search. Select it in the results (it should be at the top.)

     

    ☞ In the Finder, select Go ▹ Utilities from the menu bar, or press the key combination shift-command-U. The application is in the folder that opens.

     

    ☞ Open LaunchPad. Click Utilities, then Terminal in the icon grid.

     

    Paste into the Terminal window (command-V).

     

    A TextEdit window will open with the output of the command. If the command produced no output, the window will be empty. Post the contents of the TextEdit window (not the Terminal window), if any — the text, please, not a screenshot. The title of the window doesn't matter, and you don't need to post that.

     

    If any personal information appears in the output, anonymize before posting, but don’t remove the context.

  • by jasond85,

    jasond85 jasond85 Jul 3, 2013 4:31 AM in response to Linc Davis
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 3, 2013 4:31 AM in response to Linc Davis

    /dev/disk0

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *120.0 GB   disk0

       1:                        EFI                         209.7 MB   disk0s1

       2:                  Apple_HFS Mac SSD                 119.2 GB   disk0s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk0s3

    /dev/disk1

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *4.0 TB     disk1

       1:                        EFI                         209.7 MB   disk1s1

       2:          Apple_CoreStorage                         4.0 TB     disk1s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Boot OS X               134.2 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk2

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:                  Apple_HFS Data                   *4.0 TB     disk2

    /dev/disk3

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *2.0 TB     disk3

       1:                        EFI                         209.7 MB   disk3s1

       2:                  Apple_HFS Time Machine            2.0 TB     disk3s2

     

     

    CoreStorage logical volume groups (1 found)

    |

    +-- Logical Volume Group 2011994C-9C0A-4E4D-B293-C25FE75ED89F

        =========================================================

        Name:         Data

        Status:       Online

        Size:         4000443056128 B (4.0 TB)

        Free Space:   0 B (0 B)

        |

        +-< Physical Volume 431820B3-B818-4419-B294-3AE5A9F6CB27

        |   ----------------------------------------------------

        |   Index:    0

        |   Disk:     disk1s2

        |   Status:   Online

        |   Size:     4000443056128 B (4.0 TB)

        |

        +-> Logical Volume Family 4F3C5295-4F27-4B7B-99FD-8B4D177EB0B9

            ----------------------------------------------------------

            Encryption Status:       Unlocked

            Encryption Type:         None

            Conversion Status:       NoConversion

            Conversion Direction:    -none-

            Has Encrypted Extents:   No

            Fully Secure:            No

            Passphrase Required:     No

            |

            +-> Logical Volume CB2982D6-5A46-407D-BAE1-875C8F22E799

                ---------------------------------------------------

                Disk:               disk2

                Status:             Online

                Size (Total):       4000124280832 B (4.0 TB)

                Size (Converted):   -none-

                Revertible:         No

                LV Name:            Data

                Volume Name:        Data

                Content Hint:       Apple_HFS

  • by Linc Davis,

    Linc Davis Linc Davis Jul 3, 2013 7:37 AM in response to jasond85
    Level 10 (208,022 points)
    Applications
    Jul 3, 2013 7:37 AM in response to jasond85

    I don't know why the drive is formatted that way. If you have backups of the data, or if there's no data on the drive, you can try to convert the CS volume to HFS without risk.

  • by jasond85,Helpful

    jasond85 jasond85 Jul 3, 2013 7:40 AM in response to Linc Davis
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 3, 2013 7:40 AM in response to Linc Davis

    I am actually getting a second backup of the drive now (already have 1). I think I am going to drive to reformat it to HFS again and see what happens.

  • by Topher Kessler,Helpful

    Topher Kessler Topher Kessler Jul 3, 2013 7:47 AM in response to jasond85
    Level 6 (9,866 points)
    Jul 3, 2013 7:47 AM in response to jasond85

    Run the following command in the Terminal to destroy the logical volume group (copy and paste it):

     

    diskutil cs delete 2011994C-9C0A-4E4D-B293-C25FE75ED89F

     

    After doing this, does the drive appear as a corestorage volume or as a standard drive? If it's standard, then try selecting the drive device in Disk Utility and use the Partition tab that appears to create "1 Partition" (in the drop-down menu) and ensure the partition scheme is GUID (by clicking the Options button). When this is done, the system should have formatted the drive as a standard device and not a CoreStorage volume, but report back here if it does.

     

    Message was edited by: Topher Kessler

  • by jasond85,Solvedanswer

    jasond85 jasond85 Jul 3, 2013 5:32 PM in response to Topher Kessler
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 3, 2013 5:32 PM in response to Topher Kessler

    Okay, so I did this, and the drive showed up in Disk Utility with the serial number and brand. It showed which bay it was in and everything like I would have expected at first. Unfortunately, when I go to format it, like normal with 1 partition, it says formatting, and then creating CoreStorage Volume. So, apparently it is going to do that no matter what I do.

     

    I called Apple, and after talking to 3 people, I was told that my 2009 model does not officially support more than a 2 TB drive in any of the drive bays. They said that even though it was working through CoreStorage, that it wouldn't be reliable above 2 TB. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but apparently this isn't going to work out for me. I guess I will settle with 2 TB for now and get a new Mac Pro later this year. =(

  • by Topher Kessler,

    Topher Kessler Topher Kessler Jul 4, 2013 5:41 AM in response to jasond85
    Level 6 (9,866 points)
    Jul 4, 2013 5:41 AM in response to jasond85

    This is likely accurate information. The drive's controller may have a hardware limit such as 32-bit LBA and 512-byte block size maximums, that prevent it from addressing over 2.2TB volume sizes. I guess Disk Utility's method for working around this is to use CoreStorage, but its bizarre to me that it would recognize it as a 4TB device in hardware (as shown in your cs drive list tree) if this is the case.

  • by The hatter,

    The hatter The hatter Jul 5, 2013 6:28 AM in response to jasond85
    Level 9 (60,935 points)
    Jul 5, 2013 6:28 AM in response to jasond85

    There is a term for this: "Take it with a grain of salt"

     

    They have come out with total nonesense before on various issues.

     

    Maybe if the fessed up that there are bugs in the hardware architecture and in the kernel and every system almost can get slapped around (not supporting 128GB RAM, only 96 but then an OS X update didn't support more than 64GB). I wonder if they really do thorough testing. Which was one of the reasons all the worries about Apple abandoning the Mac Pro market.

     

    Graphic cards too. Or RAM configurations. And when new drives or higher density DIMMs come out, do you think they update the web page specs or anything? No.

     

    Apple Pro RAID card is stuck in the past and has a 2.2TB limit. Not SATA  chip controller.

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jul 5, 2013 8:54 AM in response to The hatter
    Level 9 (61,250 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 5, 2013 8:54 AM in response to The hatter

    The 2009 model shipped with a 10.5 or 10.6 DVD. If you still have that, boot to it, answer only the "What Language" question and wait a quarter minute while it draws a MenuBar. Then choose Disk Utility off a Menu.

     

    Ask 10.6 Disk Utility to partition the 4GB drive into one partition (NOT "as currently partitioned"). Let us know the results. [10.6 does not know about logical Volume Groups, so it does not have those bugs.]

     

    Do you swear you do not have an Apple RAID card installed?

  • by jasond85,

    jasond85 jasond85 Jul 5, 2013 10:42 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 5, 2013 10:42 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    I have already sent the 4 TB drive back, so no more testing. I went ahead and got a 2 TB WD Black drive instead. Everything is working great now, except less space. I do not have a RAID card installed.

  • by sftalon,

    sftalon sftalon Aug 8, 2013 12:33 PM in response to jasond85
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 8, 2013 12:33 PM in response to jasond85

    I spent the entire day figuring this out on my MacPro4,1 (2009), so while I still don't know whether it's better to format each drive as HFS+ or LVG, I can answer your original question!

     

    "can't figure out why when I initialized the 4 TB drive it defaulted to a Logical Volume Group"

     

    Yes, since Lion this is the default filing system, and yes, you can format your drives as Journaled HFS+, no matter the size.

     

    I freaked when I learned about the fusion drive as I had just extracted my DVD drive and installed 2 Samsung 120GB Solid State drives in the Upper & Lower bays. I was primarily worried about Core Storage being in charge of my roughly 10TB's worth of animation & graphics resources and feared I'd sooner or later encounter some failures when CS tried to copy video sources during editing... transferring 50GB of files to the SSD for a single project scared the s out of me, so I wasted a day figuring out a procedure.

     

    Monday: two 120GB SSD (Upper & Lower Bays) |  three 3TB Seagate Drives (SATA in Bays 1-3)  |  one Seagate 4TB (SATA in Bay 4)  |  all of which were formatted as LVG's


    Thursday: all drives formatted as Journaled HFS+

     

    Method:

     

    1) backup a drive

     

    2) shutdown

     

    3) extract drive from bay

     

    4) restart

     

    5) connect drive externally (should come up as unreadable and ask to initialize)

     

    6) click Initialize or just open Disk Utility

     

    7) in the DU window, select the drive (not the volume underneath)

     

    8) click on the Partition tab

     

    9) select 1 Partition from the pulldown menu

     

    10) click the Options button

     

    11) click the GUID radio button, then OK

     

    *You couldn't reformat the drives because the partition scheme of all LVS-formatted drives are Master Boot Record, not GUID. Furthermore, when the drive in connected in the bay, the LVS prevents you from re-partitioning the drive)

     

    12) select Mac OS Extended Journaled for the format, name it and click Apply

     

    13) after formatting is complete, quit programs and shutdown

     

    14) install drive back into bay

     

    15) restart (the disc, even though formatted as HFS+, will come up unreadable so open DU)

     

    16) for some reason, the bay interface doesn't like the externally formatted drive, BUT since the LVG has been deleted, you can now move forward

     

    17) select the disk (not volume), click the Partition tab, select 1 Partition, click Options and select GUID and OK, select Mac OS Extended Journaled, apply and voila!

     

    Follow-up Q's: So now that we can create HFS+ drives and eliminate LVG's, it begs the question, does having multiple LVG drives open the door for the OS to fuse them at some point automatically? Since my SSD drives are HFS+, I assume this is not a worry. But now, I'm wondering that if I have 4 drives individually formatted as LVG's, will each drive remain discrete? If so, then is the LVG format way better than HFS+? If so, why? Or did Apple just start using LVG's in anticipation of fusing SSD & HD tech? All I wanted to do was prevent the OS from spreading my data across multiple physical drives, so if LVG is tons better and each drive will always remain completely separate, I'll switch back... hopefully someone will answer before I've copied all the data to the fresh HFS+ drives:)

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