1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Latest reply: Jul 29, 2013 10:09 AM by The hatter
artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

I have a 2008 8 core 2.26Ghz 64 bit Mac Pro. I have a couple of 2TB internal HDD in it now, one with Snow Leopard that also has a small Bootcamp partition with Windows 7 on it.. The second HDD is purely for SuperDuper clone of the Snow Leopard while my back up of Windows 7 is to an external HDD

 

Snow Leopard is essential to me as I need Rosetta for some older graphics software and so have no intention of upgrading to Mountain Lion. Windows 7 is also essential to me.

 

 

I wish to upgrade to 3TB HDD but was told that while I can do that I would not be able to use Bootcamp in Snow Leopard on a HDD larger than 2TB.

 

Is this true? If so is there a work around that enables me to do it or any other alternatives so that I can increase my HDD space in a practical manner and keep my main backups on an internal HDD?

 

 

Alternately:

 

I am aware using RAID might be a solution but I have never done that before so not sure about the implications. If I used 2 x 2TB HDD as a single concatenated HDD will a Windows 7 Bootcamp be supported? Can I then use slots 3 and 4 for two more 2TB HDD make them into a second concatenated RAID and then use Super Duper to clone from the first RAID to the second RAID? Is there a better way to do this?

  • 1. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    mende1 Level 10 Level 10 (89,570 points)

    Since OS X 10.8.3, Boot Camp supports hard drives bigger than 2.2 TB. This is caused because the Mac emulates a MBR in order to install Windows, and it doesn't work correctly with 2.2 TB hard drives, that in theory only works with a GPT partition table (that uses your Mac).

     

    If you want to use Boot Camp on a hard drive bigger than 2.2 TB, upgrade to OS X Mountain Lion, but it's probably not the best option.

     

    In that case, the option you have is to use external drives to store your files

  • 2. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    I think you are going about it slightly off.

     

    Mac: use a small fast SSD for system. You could do the same for Windows, which needs 80GB or more depending on your needs.

     

    Buy Paragon HDM 12 or another and setup Windows on its own hard drive.

     

    Use 2TB drive or array for your Mac DATA

     

    Don't use 3TB Green for data, they work great in Windows but not always that well in 10.6.8.

     

    You can use internal drives for backup, but always have a 2nd external set.

     

    Your mac can have 4 drive bays, more in the lower optical bay, and two SSDs each on a PCIe SSD controller (Sonnet Tempo SSD or Pro, OWC has theirs).

     

    If you have an Apple array then you have to use MacDrive HFS or disable Apple's HFS for Windows as it will crash Windows if it encounters the array.

     

    I would not put everything on one drive like you seem to be trying. Performance, maintenance are better when an OS and its data are on separate physical drives.

     

    Booting Windows on a PCIe SSD you'll have to research which if any are working or what issues there are but it can be nice. An SSD even on SATA II bus is also fine and great way to have your system running better and faster. And with 240GB Samsung 840 $165, you could put Mac and Windows on a single SSD if you prefer (500GB $320)

  • 3. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    The problem with using external drives is speed. A SuperDuper clone over Firewire 800 takes over 2 hours while the same clone internal drive to internal drive takes 20 minutes. Consequently I am trying to get everything internal if possible hence the look at larger hard drives. Mountain Lion is not an option as it would cost me thousands in replacement software.

     

    Does Snow Leopard Bootcamp work in a RAID array, especially where the combined drives exceed 2.2TB?

  • 4. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    I bought Sonnet E4P and use an ODD Extender to have two more SATA drives on their own SATA II bus. I never use FW but FW800 is more than capable for TimeMachine.

     

    CCC and SD do smart updates and take 15 minutes if you do it daily unless you have a whole lot more of file changes.

     

    Apple very clearly in the pdf for Boot Camp says and if you look on the Boot Camp support page or forum "No" and even if Windows is not on an array or Mac, the presence of the array causes trouble.

     

    http://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp

  • 5. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    I have a 2008 8 core 2.26Ghz

     

    That would be Early 2009 4,1

     

    Look and paste the line from System Profile

     

    2008 was 4 or 8-core 2.8GHz, there was not a 2,.26 until later, and was a huge sacrifice in clock speed to have more RAM slots at the time, cheaper to have dual processor to use expensive 4GB DIMMs.

     

    That system came with 10.5.7 but req'd 10.6.2+ to avoid problems with audio and heat (poor programming)

  • 6. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    Thank you Hatter, but I am sorry I have trouble getting my head around this so I need to clarify my understanding of what you suggest is realistically possible:

     

    You are suggesting that I can use the spare optical drive slot for a HDD meaning I have effectively 5 slots for HDD?

     

    That I could put both Snow leopard and the bootcamp Windows 7 onto an SSD in the optical drive bay, then RAID array 2 x 2TB HDD for data as a single 4TB volume,  and RAID array 2 x 2TB HDD for internal 4TB Backup clones.

     

    BTW, while I have been talking about internal (daily) backup, I also do an extra external backup clone weekly or more often if it seems prudent.

  • 7. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    Sorry you are right, my Mac Pro is early 2009. Just a bity of brain fade there. As an artist my expertise is in using graphics programs but I easily get confused by the computer innards

  • 8. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    Okay, I think I am finally getting it.

     

    I can have 3TB but no Bootcamp. I can have RAID but no Bootcamp. I need Windows 7 so I am stuck with 2TB hard drives.

     

    I now need to get my head around the idea of putting Snow Leopard and Bootcamp onto an SSD. I only need 80 gigs for Windows so it seems like it might be feasible for a 240GB SSD

     

    One question. I have a mistrust of the reliability of SSD's. Have they improved in their reliability/longevity in recent years?

  • 9. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    SSDs: Yes.

     

    Samsung 840 is a great device. I still install TRIM Enabler. Some debate that. I feel safer. The lack of TRIM made for problems. And, SSDs have been a constantly changing technology for the 5 yrs we have been using them, first people putting them in their Mac Pro was around June 2008 that I recalled.

     

    Install TRIM.

    clone the Mac OS to the SSD.

    Run DU now that it invokes TRIM.

    Run BCA

    Install Windows

     

    Use MacDrive if you RAID any drives.

     

    http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-120GB-internal-MZ-7TD120BW/dp/B009NHAF06/

     

    I must add: with SSDs allow lots of extra, if you "need": 80GB then plan on 160GB partition.

    I normally go for 50% anyway but with an SSD and how it uses NAND storage cells, my system tends to write 300GB per month on the system, so ideally I would have 300GB + 40GB for the system for ideal.

     

    Oh, and Samsung on Windows will clone a drive to Samsung device, and only to a Samsung, copying all the partitions. Worth a shot.

     

    If you can afford 500GB $320, may be too much or overkill, but it is an excellent device.

     

    You could also use a WD 10K 240 or 500GB for $100 or $145 too, or a 1TB for $89.

     

    I've always been a fan of dedicated system drives. You can link to your media and data with alias and preferences or other means. Mac and Windows allow setting the User on another volume.

    You could use NTFS partation on another drive if needed for your data, setting aside 500GB or whatever.

  • 10. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    Why arrays? speed? size? Why not get a PCIe SATA controller and 4 externals?

     

    SSDs are great too for PS scratch even if you have 24 or 32 or 48GB.

    And you can boot OS X from Sonnet Tempo Pro in one of your free PCIe slots.

     

    Visited this site?

    http://www.macperformanceguide.com

     

    Lots of ideas for performance for using CS6 and Lightroom or other apps.

  • 11. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (58,880 points)

    I wanted to be a poet or philosopher but I loved math and smbolic logic and that paid my bills but wasn't as much fun but i do get a kick out of a really good database and how it impacts lives and people too.

  • 12. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    I really appreciate your generosity in the time and words you are putting into this. At my end I am hitting Google etc with each of your replies as I try and figure things out. I had never heard of TRIM before and after reading the the Wikipedia article I have a better idea and presume it is software I can buy/download.

     

    I have discovered that I can buy the Samsung 250GB SSD for about AU$200 locally and 2TB HDD are about AU$160

     

    If I put the SSD into the spare optical drive bay would it slide in as easily as hard drives do into the HDD bays?

     

    As to the PCIe stuff, that is something I know nothing about and my fingers are about to go to Google for a crash course. Is there any advantatage in going that route over the optical drive bay? And from your words I get the implication that it might be possible for  some sort of SATA speed connection to an external HDD. Did I get that wrong?

  • 13. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    Grant Bennet-Alder Level 8 Level 8 (49,245 points)

    presume [TRIM] is software I can buy/download.

     

    Its freeware/donationware:

     

    http://www.groths.org/trim-enabler/

  • 14. Re: Is It True Mac Pro With SL + Bootcamp Limited To 2TB HDD?
    artistjoh Level 2 Level 2 (175 points)

    Okay so have discovered that PCIe controllers are cheap and I can see this will be so much better than Firewire 800 and provides a lot of the answer to my original problem.

     

    I would know about these things if I worked in an office and had people around me to give me tips but a lone artist in a studio of one tends to get isolated from many things. Which is why I come here. Thank you all 3 guys for your help. Time now for me to save somne pennies for hardware and I expect to revisdit this discussion several times as I  learn more and figure it all out.

     

    You have been brilliant in setting me on the path to Mac Pro enlightenment (well, at least an important part of it)

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