Currently Being ModeratedSep 12, 2013 8:37 AM (in response to TJBUSMC1973)
Sorry to be off-topic. If there was a way on this forum to write only to to TJBUSMC1973 I would have. for everyone else TL:DR. This will be my last post on this thread.
Looking at your posting history here and elsewher and tone of your comments, you do the written equivalent of talking too much and not listening enough. The end result is you come across harsh and combattitive, rather than helpful. Some exaples, of your interactions with me:
Example 1: When you respond too quickly to a post, you misread the intention. For example, I wrote
"It takes hours of time that I don't have" and you jump to the conclusion "you've contradicted yourself." All it meant was that I'm really busy and don't want to have to stop what I'm doing to deal with a malfunction that reoccurs every few months. And then I explain in the same paragraph how I did the restore and it was only a temporary fix, but I got it returned just barely before the warranty was up.
Example 2: When you don't go back to read all the comments someone posts in a thread, you lose the context. My first comment on this issue said very clearly that this started happening to us on a 6.1.2 phone and that this is clearly a hardware issue. A later post, given more information from another member, I opened my mind to the possibility that it could be software related. You, on the other hand, are stuck on "It's NOT related to the iOS update. It's a physical issue with defective wi-fi chips, related to HEAT." The truth is, you don't really know for sure unless you work for Apple and already have a solution in hand. If you do, then posting it here would get you fired. I, on the other hand have had good experience with Apple product recalls, and as a 3rd party Apple software developer, I have worked with Apple engineers to debug and fix both hardware and software issues.
Example 3: You respond to rhetorical questions. I describe how I am able to follow the troubleshooting and just barely within warranty, get the devices back for exchange 3x in 6 months. I rhetorically said "What would you do in that circumstance? Try another backup/restore and lose the warranty, or take the unit in? I chose the latter." And you unnecessarily respond to me with "Report the defect while within warranty; get free replacement. Report the defect after warranty expires; pay the OOW fee."
I tried in an offhanded way to suggest you wait a couple of hours before responding to me and others by suggesting you do a restore first. It was in the hopes that you woudl just slow down and not be so reactive to posts. I apologize if it provoked you. Instead, why don't you try this for the next week:
Each day, review all the threads you normally post to and pick only one thread to repsond to. Write only one response that day, but make it a thoughtful one that takes into account everyone's comments together. Try to add value to the discussion.
At the end of 7 days of one post per day, see if people react better to what you have to say. OK you're on your own. I'm not posting any more about this, and there is no need for you to reply. Just take it or leave it.
Currently Being ModeratedSep 12, 2013 10:55 AM (in response to mikebikemusic)
1.) No, you either have the time, or you don't. It's not a variable; it's binary. I didn't jump to a conclusion. I responded to what you said. If you 'misspoke' (or in this case, 'mistyped'), that's your issue, not mine.
2.) Let's just say that my experience with Apple products is similar to yours. I'll leave it at that. Add in a few decades of related electronics & software experience, troubleshooting & repairs, even before the first iPhone was announced, and I am confident that based on my observations, it is a hardware issue.
3.) As far as my 'response to a rhetorical question', you misunderstand. The 'in warranty/out of warranty' comment is a generalized comment, not specific to you. I really don't care whether you discovered your particular defect within or outside of the warranty. In my opinion, those within warranty have rights. Those outside of warranty do not, and should be glad that Apple is offering a discounted replacement. Or better yet, wait for an official response from Apple on this minor issue.
Finally, your 'guidance' on how I should interact on these forums is unneeded, unwanted, and irrelevant. But you're welcome to express your opinion if you choose. I fully support that right. Just know that it's a futile effort. I'm fully comfortable with my level and type of interaction on this forum.
No, it isn't cheaper to repair because the labor cost will exceed the replacement cost for the phone. When Apple takes the phone back in exchange they send it to a country with a low labor rate for refurbishing.
Besides not being cheaper to fix, as Lawrence noted, please keep in mind that the problem MAY NOT be hardware-related, so replacing the chip is no guarantee of fixing it. Remember: the original wi-fi problem being discussed in this thread begins right after the iOS upgrade on 4S devices. This could have been caused by any number of reasons, obviously, but the simple fact is that these devices worked just fine until the upgrade.
TJBUSMC1973, no need to reply. We all know that you work for the Evangelist Dept at Apple. :-)
Currently Being ModeratedSep 13, 2013 1:42 PM (in response to PatricJuel)
My suggestion is that if you don't require the warranty or if it's about to be expired just take your device to a 3rd party Apple repair shop. They will fix it for you at a low cost. Mine cost me 30$ and is still working fine after 1 month and the wifi has never been turned off during this period. I am constantly using it.
I'm an electronics engineer and I can say that definately heating your phone gives you only an exteremely low chance of fixing the issue permanently. The only permanent solution is to resolder the pins on the wifi chip which should be done with proper tools and expert hands.
The guys at the repair shop I took my phone to had fixed this issue many times and they exactly knew what they had to do.
But if you want to replace your phone that's your decision but I guess the refurb device that you are going to get is no better than your current device.
No amount of heating or freezing is going to help you solve your problem. It will recurr eventually. Just do what needs to be done.
Slinging religious insults again, Marcio? Hmm, I shouldn't have expected anything better from you.
And again, you're applying improper logic. The software update generates heat. Excessive heat reveals the defect. It's so very, very simple.
Remember: the original wi-fi problem being discussed in this thread begins right after the iOS upgrade on 4S devices.
However, there have been identical threads for many other versions, long before the iOS 61.3 upgrade. And also threads for this same problem not associated with any upgrade.
Currently Being ModeratedSep 13, 2013 4:19 PM (in response to TJBUSMC1973)
I agree with TJBUSMC1973 on this. This issue is not software related
This is a hardware defect which reveals after the devices is exposed to heat, moisture or bump.
The amount of the heat or moisture or bump depends on how poor the soldering of the wifi chip is.
The poorer the connections, the easier your wifi button greys out. Like by a simple iOS upgrade. Some others may go grey only after playing an HD game while the iPhone is plugged in to charge the battery.
Currently Being ModeratedSep 13, 2013 4:59 PM (in response to Nemesis865)
That doesn't explain my case and that of some others here: my iPhone 4S worked great under even brutal circumstances (daughter playing games by the pool under scorching sun? check!). I mean NO problems, ever. I didn't even know there was such an issue with wi-fi greying out, until the very first second after applying the upgrade to iOIS 6.1.3. Wi-fi never came back.
You may insist on a hardware issue, and you may be right, but I'm convinced that my phone would still be good had I not upgraded iOS. Apple broke it.
It's called "the straw that broke the camel's back". Ever heard of it?
I see a glimmer of understanding beginning to peek out from under your brow, Marcio. This is a good thing!
Ever had a chair break when you sat in it? A chair you'd sat in hundreds of times before?
How about a rope? Over time, small little stress tears degrade the rope, until one day, even under a normal load, the rope breaks.
Same idea. It was a coincidence that your wi-fi died immediately after the update.
Coincidence. Nothing more.
In the end, does it really matter? You're wi-fi is broke, and it's either because the chip was defective, or (as you believe) the iOS update caused the failure. Either way, the source of the failure is the same.
Why does it matter to you whether it was hardware or software?
Currently Being ModeratedSep 13, 2013 8:51 PM (in response to TJBUSMC1973)
TJBUSMC1973 wrote: "It's called ''the straw that broke the camel's back'. Ever heard of it? (...) Coincidence. Nothing more."
Right. A very unusual and extremely unlikely "coincidence" that is shared by lots of other people online and even led a Time tech editor to write an article on it...
Apple, you disappoint me. Google Android phone, here I go (as soon as the AT&T contract allows me anyway)...
Currently Being ModeratedSep 14, 2013 11:56 AM (in response to PatricJuel)
Looking for a solution. This problem was as a result of upgrade to new operating system. It is so ridiculous to argue what is internally happening in the phone. The problem is these phones were not designed to be compatible for this new operating system. This is eating up the data plan on the family plan with verizon. I dont understand that Apple does not agree to fix this, it just seems really wrong. An Apple recommended (or mandatory?) upgrade causes so many peoples phones not to work, and this is the customers problem? Really.