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Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

434578 Views 1,985 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2014 11:34 AM by Kxtr73 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 29, 2013 2:56 PM (in response to kvoth)

    I found a bit more information.

     

    1) The MBPR is definitely an 8-bit screen. (Model number LP154WT1-SJA2)

     

    2) To find out what screen model you have, type this into terminal

    ioreg -lw0 | grep "EDID" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

    3) I found two sites that are good for looking up laptop screens. [2] [3]

     

    4) There is actually a 10-bit screen (and maybe more). The model numbers are LP156WF3 SLB1, LP156WF3 SLB2, LP156WF3 SLB3. A computer that has this screen is the HP 8560w and HP8570w. I haven't tested these out, but reading through the forum there are a lot of people saying that it's gorgeous. There are also a lot of reports that it's buggy

     

    5) I have been using a MBPR (MacBookPro10,1) all day and I don't feel so bad. Maybe this will work out?

     

    <Link Edited By Host>

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 12:51 AM (in response to kvoth)

    I guess my 2 laptop screens are 6-bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5wV83aBuWE

  • benterz222 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 1:19 AM (in response to kvoth)

    What sort of eye strain is this topic originally related to? I have been using my MBPr everyday since last December (have a LSN154YL01001 screen) and haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary?

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 6:23 AM (in response to benterz222)

    Benterz, some people simply have a burning issue with their eyes causing some watering and irritation after a period of use and this can be from dry eyes not blinking. And others like myself have borderline epileptic seizure like reactions causing severe migraines and vertigo that seem to begin with eye strain in the first few seconds/minutes. This is only a smaller percentage of users and most people will not have any issues they can perceive. There are a number of people with medical conditions who are light sensitive to begin with and the new LED monitors are worse for some. Some people have no medical explanation and experience severe symptoms, I am one of those however I believe my issue may be related to previous head trauma. The original posters personal experience is in their first post.

  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 8:50 AM (in response to Jessiah1)

    I have also had head trauma.

     

    My symptoms are simmilar to Jessiah1. It starts with eye uncomfort, usually just one eye will start having a burning sensation, then it starts to feel like a mental strain just to keep my eyes focused on what I'm reading/looking at, I can begin to feel a little naseus. After an hour or 2 of this, I am completely mentally worn down and all I want to do is sleep. It becomes increasingly difficult for me to use cognitive abilities.

     

    Edit: It also feels like a very low level headache. Very mild, not enough to even want advil. I also now have profound photosensitivity. I wear sunglasses from the moment I wake up until the moment I go to sleep. I get a lot of looks

     

    The macbook retina made me feel OK yesterday, and so far it is doing well today.  I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's much better than the rest. If anyone can get their hands on a HP 8570w with a dreamcolor display, I'd really love to hear about that. I also plan to buy a Dell U2410 monitor.

     

    The phone is still an issue for me. My iPhone 5 still makes me feel terrible. The Samsung G4 seemed just as uncomfortable as the iPhone 5. The HTC One doesn't feel great but it's not as bad as the iPhone 5. I am truly considering buying a basic flip phone.

  • LovesDogs0415 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 9:19 AM (in response to benterz222)

    Why are you asking, Benterz222?  How did you find this list if you are not having any problems?

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 1:36 PM (in response to kvoth)

    Kvoth, your symptoms are what mine were 3 years ago when everything was just CCFL and general lighting was not LED anywhere yet. I can't look at any new technology anymore for any period of time unfortunately, I hope you do not progress to my current status! One theory I have now is that something is happening to make me more sensitive each time I have major exposure causing severe migraines. My sensitivity may be increasing after each episode, I am more sensitive to all light lately unfortunately and fear that one day migraines may be triggered immediately by any type of light at some point, lets hope not....I hear you on the flip phone. My friend just purchased a 5S and I found his screen somewhat easier to look at than the 4/4S and 5, it appears different to me.

     

    A lot of people on this forum are talking about different image rendering technologies behind the phones and computer screens, it would be really great if Apple was working on this and used some of the more sensitive people to test solutions...Of course they are out sourcing monitors so that is complicated but some manufacturer should be working on this because if it would be good for those who are sensitive it must be good for those who are not as well.

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2013 1:38 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    Has anyone tried the new iphone 5S? For some reason I think it might be easier to look at than my new 4 and it looks different? It still bothers me but I haven't looked at it for long periods of time and I'm the most sensitive person I know so maybe not a good meter over all

  • azure8 Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 3:05 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    iPhone 5 is OK for me. There was an adjustment period.

     

    Not as as easy to look at as the 4S I had, but tolerable.

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 4:01 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    How bad are your symptoms? Can you describe them in more detail? Do you have any shortness of breath, brain fog, inability to do simple calculations? Does your face feel like its burning from inside? Is there any facial numbness, tension or cramp like feeling. Any feeling heaviness in the chest? Can you tell me if the old CCFL backlit monitors are troublesome to you as well? How about old fluorescent lights that use magnetic ballast? Do you ever get a choking feeling in your throat, that goes away only if you blow your nose or cough vigorously? Most importantly does excessive amount of strong coffee in the morning trigger similar symptoms?

  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2013 5:54 PM (in response to ArtechokiQ)

    ArtechokiQ wrote:

     

    How bad are your symptoms? Can you describe them in more detail? Do you have any shortness of breath, brain fog, inability to do simple calculations? Does your face feel like its burning from inside? Is there any facial numbness, tension or cramp like feeling. Any feeling heaviness in the chest? Can you tell me if the old CCFL backlit monitors are troublesome to you as well? How about old fluorescent lights that use magnetic ballast? Do you ever get a choking feeling in your throat, that goes away only if you blow your nose or cough vigorously? Most importantly does excessive amount of strong coffee in the morning trigger similar symptoms?

     

    ArtechokiQ

     

    I don't know if you were asking me or Jessiah or both of us

     

    My symptoms are pretty bad, though they can vary. I had to quit my job (software) because it became impossible to do the work.

     

    When a small wave comes on, my eye burns, then it aches, I can get a small headache, and I can then feel naseus. I begin to feel disoriented, dizzy, and have a hard time looking around. However, my balance is still fine. When I've been using a device for a long time and I get serious symptoms, everything becomes very difficult for me. I get the symptoms above, but the worst part is that simple decisions becomes seriously difficult. I become extremely lethargic and exhausted. Mentally, I am tcompletely taxed. Yes, simple calculations would be tough. All I want to do is close my eyes and lay down. It is a tough task to just keep my eyes open and process what I am seeing.

     

    The "small wave" symptoms happen multiple times per day. The worse symptoms happen when I spend an extended period of time on a device.

     

    Both natural light as well as indoor lighting. I think that fluorescent lights are really bad. When I go to the indoor climbing gym, I wear sunglasses now. Being in there without sunglasses makes the intense symptoms trigger. Sunglasses don't make it perfect, but it helps a lot.

     

    Sepearate from these triggered symptoms, I have other permanent symptoms. I very easily get "floaters" in my vision (burned in images) even from non-light sources. Also, I'll frequently see "stars" in my vision.

     

    EDIT: I have photosensitivity. Being outside in the light is uncomfortable without sunglasses. Additionally, I've noticed that straining physical exercise will intensify my light sensitivity and make me feel disoriented.

     

    To answer some of your other questions:

    Do you have any shortness of breath, brain fog, inability to do simple calculations?

    Brain fog and inability to do simple calculations when I have the severe symptoms. No shortness of breath, really. I exercise a lot and at high altitude.

     

    Does your face feel like its burning from inside?

     

    My eye does (usually only my right eye, the dominant one). The rest of my face does not.

     

    Is there any facial numbness, tension or cramp like feeling. Any feeling heaviness in the chest?

     

    No.

     

    Can you tell me if the old CCFL backlit monitors are troublesome to you as well?

     

    I don't know when the last time I had a CCFL monitor was (not sure which ones were CCFL). I had 30" Dell monitors that were 4 years old. I had no problems with them. I had 24" Dell's in the years before that.

     

    I never had these problems with any devices I had (or maybe I did but they were mild?) until 1.5 years ago. I changed companies and got all new devices. A new Google Nexus phone, a 30" apple glossy display, and the macbook pro that was current at that time. I then got an iPhone 5 when they came out.

     

    How about old fluorescent lights that use magnetic ballast?

     

    I'm not sure if they are magnetic ballast, but yes, the fluorescent lights at the climbing gym I go to make me feel terrible.

     

    Do you ever get a choking feeling in your throat, that goes away only if you blow your nose or cough vigorously?

     

    Hmm. Not a choking feeling, I wouldn't say. But my throat has been constricted; I'd say about 70% of the time I eat food, it gets caught in my throat in the first few bites of a meal. It's very uncomfortable and I have to wash it down with water. I always have to have a drink with my meals now. I've never had this problem a single time in my life before now.

    Most importantly does excessive amount of strong coffee in the morning trigger similar symptoms?

     

    YES. I used to drink coffee daily and sometimes 2x. I have completely quit drinking coffee. Then, today, I tested it out again. A strong Late. Sure enough, I got my symptoms a few hours later and I had done nothing that would normally trigger them.

     

    Would you mind explaining how you know all of these things?

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Sep 30, 2013 6:45 PM (in response to kvoth)

    I might be able to help you with the fluorescent lights, polarized sunglasses will make things worse so don't use those. Go to your eye doctor and get a pair of glasses with this coating whether you need a prescription or not: http://www.crizalusa.com/Crizal-Lenses/Crizal-Prevencia/Pages/default.aspx

     

    I have been through the gauntlet of Dr.'s and drugs and the glasses are the only thing to help at all so far. They may help a little with LED lighting however it should defiantly help much more than tinted lenses with fluorescent lighting. I have been working with Crizal to provide feedback for some time and they are working on more lenses for the future, hopefully something that works better with LED for me!

     

    If money is an issue try these out with fluorescent lighting:http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S4400X-Eyewear-Uvextra-Anti-Fog/dp/B003OBZ3UE

     

    8 bucks, they are what I wore at my place of work under fluorescent light until the LED lights were installed. The reason you had issues with all of your new devices is because they are all newer LED technology and blue light, most everyone here is having the same problem.

     

    Your symptoms are extremely close to mine with the exception that I cannot look at any LED devices for any time without getting severely sick, maybe 30 seconds to 2 minutes and I am done for hours. If I get 1 hour of exposure I am done for days if not weeks.

  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2013 7:23 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    I might be able to help you with the fluorescent lights, polarized sunglasses will make things worse so don't use those. Go to your eye doctor and get a pair of glasses with this coating whether you need a prescription or not: http://www.crizalusa.com/Crizal-Lenses/Crizal-Prevencia/Pages/default.aspx

    Thanks a lot for this. I'll go do this immediately.

    I have been through the gauntlet of Dr.'s and drugs and the glasses are the only thing to help at all so far.

    Your symptoms are extremely close to mine with the exception that I cannot look at any LED devices for any time without getting severely sick, maybe 30 seconds to 2 minutes and I am done for hours. If I get 1 hour of exposure I am done for days if not weeks.

    Do you have any idea what caused this? Was it soon after head trauma? Or was it linked to new devices?

     

    With your trauma, did you hurt your neck at all? If you did, or even if you're not sure if you did, I'd recommend going to a chiropractor. In addition to my symptoms listed above, I was having extreme energy issues. I constantly felt as if I hadn't eaten food in days. Very weak physically and mentally.

     

    I had an xray of my neck and it came out OK. I went to a good chiropractor and after one 30 minute session I walked out feeling immediately better. She said my neck was definitely misaligned. I'm still not sure how or if the neck issue is connected to my eyes.

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2013 7:17 AM (in response to kvoth)

    Unfortunately I cannot perfectly match up dates to know exactly when it started or what caused the issue however I do know I had hit my head on ice while snowboarding around the same time I started having major issues with fluorescent. I can recall several major hits to my head through out my life, my neurologist has explained that everyone is different. Some may have issues after one hit to the head and others it could be the 5th, 6th or who know's time before something happens to their brain. I have heard of foot ball players having light sensitivity after concussions so the theory does make sense. My MRI did not show any serious concussion damage however I question the thoroughness when they examined my MRI results because they completed it at the request of an ENT to look for inner ear damage due to my vertigo symptoms.

     

    My neck and back have always bothered me as well, I carry a lot of tension in my middle back and have some posture issues, I lift weights regularly to try and compensate for this and a lower back injury (slipped disc). I have been to chiropractors all through my life for one reason or another, I tried revisiting that to solve my current problem with no luck. What I can say is that it does help relieve some of the symptoms after heavy exposure to LED light but I have found it does not prevent any of the reaction I have to the LED lights in the first place.

     

    The body is complicated and the spine/brain are the most misunderstood/mysterious parts to doctors to date so I wouldn't count on anyone finding the exact root cause here. Our best bet is a technology change with LED lighting or lenses that filter out the culprit, Crizal is working on the next thing but it could be some time before we see that.

     

    I don't believe everyone involved here has had the pleasure of being exposed regularly to overhead LED lighting in stores, airports, gas stations, street lights and so on in thier respective areas of the country/world. I would be interested to see how many here have issues with that kind of lighting in addition to the Apple displays. There are a lot of theory's about operating platforms, temporal dithering and general display technology that do not apply to my aforementioned lighting sources and I get just as sick from those........

     

    To bring the conversation back to discovering the cause of our pain I still feel it is a combination of some sort of flashing and color spectrum. I believe our eyes cannot focus on the light because it appears to be out of focus to our brain and because of the extreme brightness level LED's are much more severe than fluorescent. Fluorescent's also leave a "ghost" light behind due to their nature (so appearing not to flash as harshly) than LED lights do with their instant on/off capabilities which would explain some of why the blue light filtering anti-reflective coating's I use are not as helpful with LED as they are with Fluorescent....

  • CT Level 6 Level 6 (15,015 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2013 7:27 AM (in response to Jessiah1)

    Maybe reset the SMC?

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