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Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

433555 Views 1,985 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2014 11:34 AM by Kxtr73 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 6, 2013 5:15 PM (in response to Kine)

    What I meant to say is make sure you buy the model that has an M at the end.

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
  • Kine Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 9:06 AM (in response to ArtechokiQ)

    Well so far I don't think I like the Dell u2713HM. I've had it for 4 days now and still feel burning in the eyes after a bit. I've adjusted the brightness and contrast to all different settings. Adjusted the sharpness as well. Of course I have also adjusted the colors and backed off on the blue color considerably then the green followed by the red. It is usable but I'm not sure it's any better than my 27" Apple display. I also use f.lux thanks to this forum. 

     

    Oh, I am running this at a res or 1920 x 1080 so maybe the slight fuzziness of the letters is what's getting to me. Not sure. I will be waiting for the 27" glare screen that I ordered before I return it as that may help a bit.

     

    At first I was looking at it using my contacts and I detected some glare so I have been using my eyeglasses with greater success.

     

    At work I use 19" screens with 3m glare guards that seem to help quite a bit. Those monitors are old and I can work all day on them as long as I use my glasses not contacts. I have 6 monitors stacked together. I'm a stock trader so I look at screens all day. However, if I'm reading something for too long I begin to get some fatigue.

     

    I'm now considering the Benq GW2760HS as it runs native at 1920 x 1080 and also has no PWM. But I'm starting to suspect that the LED backlight may be the main issue for me. However, even when I turn down the backlight on the Dell to 0 (Brightness 0), I still get some strain.

     

    I was thinking the Samsung s27b970D as it's supposed to be flicker free as well.

     

    Based on what I stated above, does anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

     

    One product that seems to help me are the eyedrops called Systane Ultra for refreshing and lubricating the eyes.

     

    Thanks to those who contribute to this thread.

  • Dovez Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 9:54 AM (in response to Kine)

    You could try connecting it to a very old computer.

  • Spock66 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 2:01 PM (in response to Kine)

    I'm almost completely convinced that it is the wavelength of the light/blue light which is the main cause of the problem. I have tested several led monitors, led televisions, even an Eizo from the EV range with no PWM. But eye problems still persisted.

    But there is actually a led monitor i have managed better than others and it is my son's Asus VS239H. According to PRAD, the screen has a PWM at 240hz at 52% brightness.

    But yet it is the most pleasant led screen I've ever watched.

    It takes over an hour before i start to feel something in the eyes.

    I recently tested a Lumia 920 mobile phone that should be flicker free.

    But only after a few minutes it started to burn in the eyes.

    I really hope someone comes up with a solution to the problem, but i do not think PWM flicker is the main cause of it.

  • mvanier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 4:02 PM (in response to Spock66)

    I agree with you, but you should realize that not all white LEDs are the same.  My old iPhone 3GS was very easy on the eyes; my new iPhone 4S much less so (though I can handle it now).  The specific composition of the phosphors on the white LEDs can make the color bluer or more yellowish.  The more yellowish, the easier on the eyes.  However, Eizo recently posted an ad for a new monitor which they said specifically had a more eye-friendly color spectrum (and they included diagrams showing that their LEDs were less sharply peaked in blue), so I'd look into that if I were you.  I haven't seen anything better than a CCFL-backlit monitor so far for both color quality and ease of viewing.  It's a shame that this totally mature technology seems to be dying out.

  • Spock66 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 4:54 PM (in response to mvanier)

    I have already tried a screen from Eizos new eye-friendly series, EV2336.

    But I had to return it because it was not good at all. The burning sensation in the eyes turned up pretty quickly.

    Oddly enough, it's mostly left eye that there is a problem with.

    I have been to both an optometrist and ophthalmologist, but they can not find anything wrong.

    I have perfect vision in both eyes.

    The screen i'm using now is an old CCFL Dell 2209WA and it does not cause any trouble at all

    But it's awful to not be able to use certain technology.

    I would love to have a tablet, but unfortunately i can not use them.

    Have tried both IPad3, Ipad4 and some android tablets. Ipad3 caused both motion sickness and major eye problems.

    Ipad4 had better screen refresh so it caused no motion sickness, but i got very sore eyes after a while.

    The same problem has been with the Android Tablets.

    But it is rumored that Apple will be using Sharp's new IGZO screens in Ipad5.

    So i keep my fingers crossed that they're more eye-friendly than those who exist today.

     

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 7:55 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    Are the symptoms you get from lights any less when you have a cold or are feverish?

    Do you respond differently to lights if your body temperaturee is slightly up?

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 7:55 PM (in response to kvoth)

    Are the symptoms you get from lights any less when you have a cold or are feverish?

    Do you respond differently to lights if your body temperaturee is slightly up?

  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 7, 2013 10:17 PM (in response to ArtechokiQ)

    Does anyone else here have a strabismus?

     

    If you haven't been diagnosed with one, do a check on yourself and have your optomotrist check as well. You can try this to check.

     

    For me, I know that when my eyes get really strained form the computer or phone I tend to zone out and relax my eyes -- it's a certain feeling I get. I learned how I do that and did it in front of a video camera. I could very easily see that my right eye naturally points outwards. (my right eye is my eye affected by my computer and phone)

     

    However, my strabismus is not something that is noticeable when I am focusing normally. It was awhile before an optomotrist noticed it, because when I am focused on something my eyes generally pull in just fine.

     

    The reason why I am asking this is because I have prism in my glasses to correct strabismus. When I wear them, it lessens the effect that my laptop and phone have on me. I want to know if strabismus could be making artificial light harder on us.

  • Kine Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 8, 2013 7:41 AM (in response to Spock66)

    I made some changes to my settings out of frustration and may have found some that work with the Dell. I turned the brightness down to 4, increased the contrast to 65 and increased the sharpness to 70. This actually feels pretty good. I bet with the anti glare screen that I will now be able to use this monitor and it definitely is better than my apple 27" which I will now proceed to sell. 

     

    I did order a ccfl backlit monitor yesterday that was rather inexpensive at under $200. It's a 24". I'll report on that when I get it. If I end up liking that monitor much more I'll return the Dell.

     

    I'm on the computer a lot so some eye strain is definitely going to occur. The same happens when I read a book for a long time.

     

    I also wanted to mention that I have an astigmatism. Using eye glasses is much better than using my contact lenses for viewing monitors. It helps filter the reflections better... I think (which I have a coating for on the glasses). That's why I think having an anti glare screen is very helpful in addition (not just the ag coating). More filtration is better.

  • kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 8, 2013 9:11 AM (in response to Kine)

    Kine --

     

    Could you check to see if you have strabismus?

  • Strapontin Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 8, 2013 1:01 PM (in response to RMartin111)

    This thread has now over 5 - no, 6 years, begun in 2008, more than 250,000 viewers (yes, a quarter of a million), and obviously, nobody cares, and were are just running around our tails (no offense intended, it's just the feeling I got over the last 40+ pages).

     

    There is a lot of maybe, medical consideration, personal poins of views, and different symptoms.

     

    I propose something : let think to it otherwise, through the "I don't like the blue shade/buy a new lamp/try this software" kind of approach.

     

    What is the common denominator ?

     

    LED-backlighted screens.

     

    Does it exist an alternative on the market ?

    Nope, even TV are only LEDS nowadays.

     

    So, what could be a solution ?

     

         - We need an engeneer. It may sound insane, but I guess there could be some in the 250,000 + viewers.

     

    What can we do ?

     

    1. There are small devices sold on the internet to transform old CCFL laptop screens to LED screens. (you can google it if you want).

     

    But there is no device doing the reverse : transforming LED screen in CCFL

    I guess - I am not an engeneer but - that there should be a way to create this kind of device.

    That could be "community developed" as we see community payment on the internet to lauch a singer, for example.

    (Give 1 buck, 10,000 others people too, and you have the machine of tomorrow kind of thing).

     

     

    2. Develop a new technology. (I am not kidding, and yes, we still need an engeneer, or maybe that already exist).

    I mean, everybody know about projectors. Each classroms in every university has the famous Powerpoint projector. This passive display of image (and light) does not harm the vision in anyway, since you have no direct exposition to a light source.

    If you don't know this kind of projector, I guess you already has been to the movie.

    Yes, this very one.

     

    So, why not develop a laptop, which has it's own build-in projector(s) ?

    All the new technology we actually got is based on screens : tablets, phones, etc. Sometimes, there only is the screen remaining, and the keyboard is an accessory. (Think surface),

     

    Why not do the exact reverse : a device, which is the old "keyboard/central unit" of a laptop, only with a thin plastic lid. And in the two superior hinges of the central unit, 2 small projectors projecting the desktop program on the lid ?

    Knowing that the screen is one of the most demanding source of power on a computer, this also respond to the question.

     

    You want a touch screen ? Some years ago, they made an infrared projected keyboard (which was on some smartphones, if I am not mistaken). The same technology could be used here.

     

     

    There are my solutions. I know some people will laugh about it, just others say no, but I hope some people sufficiently aware of hardware could - may - make something of it.

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