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Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro

432477 Views 1,978 Replies Latest reply: Apr 15, 2014 9:01 AM by Jessiah1 RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 10, 2013 2:04 PM (in response to urophonius)

    Sounds like you have the same issues many of us do with lighting and computers, the display you posted that does not have a back light sounds very interesting, could change screen technology for the better. Instead of looking directly at light we would be seeing with light like we humans are intended too:)

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 10, 2013 3:48 PM (in response to urophonius)

    urophonius

     

    It sounds like your symptoms are almost like mine. A lot of people here are complaining about the eyestrain. But with me it seems like things have gone beyond an eye strain and a simple headache. It is much worse than that. The throat problems are very bad actually, and they can be triggered within minutes of exposure to highly modulated low frequency light. I am also plagued by titinitus as well lately. The buzzin sound in my ears just will not go away.

     

    I do have a question for you though if you are willing to answer them:

     

    Do you respond differently to lights if your body temperature is slightly up? (When you have a fever for example!)

     

    Please do not miss reading these links, (if you have not done so already)

     

    http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerI.html

    http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/SubliminalFlickerII.html

  • ArtechokiQ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 10, 2013 7:12 PM (in response to Eric Leung1)

    Eric Leung1

     

    I just dont understand why a newer Ipad bothers me so much. I agree with you I couldnot find any PWM in new Ipad either. But for some reason I have a hard time accepting that the flicker is gone. If it is present at matrix level (at 60hz) and the LEDs are indeed more energetic then merely lowering the brightness should help (assuming no PWM present). But even lowering the brightness does not help that much, a little but not as expected. I also noticed that the newer Ipads are using the so called

    dual-LED light bar technology?

    Do you know anything about this?

  • Kine Calculating status...
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    Oct 11, 2013 8:08 AM (in response to Jessiah1)

    I just wanted to share with the group what I do at work with success. Of course I may not be as sensitive as some here but I definitely have eye-strain and fatigue. Maybe this will help someone. I've operated in this manner for a few years now and am able to operate comfortably for a whole work day. Most of my eye-strain concern revolves around working at home, after work, where I use a larger more contemporary monitor and contact lenses.

     

    I have 6 monitors set up at work. They're either HP L1906 or HP Compaq LE1911's. I have the brightness and contrast turned pretty far down anywhere from 9-15 or so typically. The contrast is sometimes a little higher depending on the monitor. Seems they vary a little bit.

     

    I have 3m EF200XXLB Anti Glare hanging covers on the 3 lower monitors. This helps quite a bit actually. Yesterday I had to work the whole day without one and it had a big impact on eye fatigue. The upper monitors I don't use as much as the lower ones so I don't need the covers and they are angled down so don't see as much reflection from the lights overhead.

     

    I wear a visor all day to protect my eyes from the overhead flourescent lights. I also opt to wear my glasses with anit-glare coating instead of contacts at work since they definitely aid in minimizing strain and it seems it allows me to focus better on the screen than contacts do. I have an astigmatism.

     

    Some quick thoughts:

     

    1. I don't think these monitors, listed above, are LED. They are active matrix TFT LCD. On the specs, it doesn't mention anything about LED's.

     

    2. Wearing a visor and glasses help.

     

    3. Adding a 3m hanging anti-glare (privacy?) filter helps. Make sure you don't get the ViewGuard filter if you go this route. It is terrible.

     

    4. I received my 24" CCFL backlit monitor a couple of days ago. At first I thought it would make a difference but now I'm not so sure. It seems that without a hanging anti-glare screen, glasses and a visor that it's just as uncomfortable as an LED screen. I'll do more testing on this over the weekend.

     

    5. It seems you can't get a hanging anti-glare for 27" monitors from 3m. Again don't get the 27" ViewGuard filter as it's terrible. You can get the film that you apply straight to the monitor but I'm not sure it's as effective. I've tried to apply one before and it didn't work well at all but it wasn't a 3m film. I ordered the 3m one and I'll report back.

     

    6. I ordered Gunnar glasses for use at home. I think someone mentioned a different type of glass here but figured I could get a pair of Gunnars quickly. During my next eye exam I'll ask about different options here since it seems wearing glasses seems to help.

     

    7. Possibly setting up a matrix of the above mentioned 19" LCD monitors may help at home.

     

    8. I just noticed that most of the applications I use have black backgrounds and colored writing (not a lot of white). Seems my strain increases when looking at a white background (like this site) even when using all of the above mentioned protection.

  • sbullock Calculating status...
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    Oct 11, 2013 8:06 AM (in response to Kine)

    Thanks for info, Kine. I have found that eye drops for dry eyes help quite a bit too  - with the light sensitivity issue (you can get them over the counter - called Systane and found near other eye drops). Part of the issue with people who are on computer all day is that we don't blink enough so our eyes dry out and the Systane drops are like an aaahhhh to the eyes.

     

    The Gunnar glasses affected the pixels too much for me and then I was straining to read, which irritated my eyes.

  • Kine Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 11, 2013 8:09 AM (in response to sbullock)

    Yes, I also use Systane Ultra drops and they are very good. I highly recommend them.

  • Gareth Jones6 Calculating status...
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    Oct 11, 2013 8:18 AM (in response to Kine)

    Thanks Kine, some useful tips there. I also have an astygmatism and it sounds like your symptoms are pretty similar to mine.

  • Eric Leung1 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
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    Oct 11, 2013 10:07 AM (in response to ArtechokiQ)

    Hi ArtechokiQ, I don't know much about the dual LED lighting bar. All I know is that the traditional LED layout used in the previous displays ain't bright enough for Apple to make the Retina iPads. And so Apple doubled the LEDs, hence the dual LED light bar. That's also why the Retina iPads are thicker than the iPad 2. (I read these from news sites)

     

    There could be a chance that the two LED bars are flickering in some fancy manner that tricks the "camera swinging" test into thinking that the light is a stable.

     

    However, if thinking at that perspective, there's also a chance that Apple have already been using some special way in flickering the LED since long ago. As I couldn't find any trace of PWM in many elder Apple devices too.

     

    Despite the fact that I couldn't find any proof of PWM in Apple displays, I agree with you that the uncomfortable feeling is very similar to looking at a flickering screen.

     

    There is a chance that the displays are really flickering, but just that we don't have a reliable way to detect and proof it.

     

    And then, with the LEDs become brighter and brighter and bluer, the effect is further enchanced.

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 11, 2013 10:22 AM (in response to Eric Leung1)

    Is there anyone here who has a VERY high speed professional camera who could film the Retina Ipad? I am sure if we slow down video enough we could rule it out or detect any flicker....

     

    I do not have access to such a camera or I would have completed this with many displays already....

  • GKphone Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 12, 2013 11:40 AM (in response to RMartin111)

    Im sure this may have been asked before, but.

     

    I have a 2008 Mac Book Pro first of the LED screens solid state.

     

    This screen does not effect me really. But my other Macbook Pro 2010 which has the same screen does.

    i.e. Dry eyes, skin irritation, on hands and Face. like sunburn within mins of using it. The effect last for a few hours after exposer.

     

    Is there a way of finding out the exact screen type and build? So i can find another machine, or replace the newer model with an older screen?

     

    The new Retina Mac Book pro was **** for me, that went straight back!!

     

    Why wont Apple help????

     

    Phone technical helpline they have never heard of this problem.....ya right!

  • kvoth Calculating status...
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    Oct 14, 2013 10:53 PM (in response to GKphone)

    All --

     

    I just wanted to report back that I bought the Dell U2410 (CCFL backlit) and it does work.  I can spent many hours on it and feel fine. I got it on eBay for $250.

  • Jerry3012 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 16, 2013 2:07 PM (in response to kvoth)

    Hi kovth,

     

    Great to hear that you found a solution for your situation. Unfortunately, U2410 did not work for me. I bought it a few months ago and it gave me headaches within an hour. I am currently using the monitor Dell ST2310. It is an old LCD model that dell does not make any more. This monitor gives me less problems I can handle. My situation is that I can not use LED for sure, but I can work with some LCD.

     

    I checked some of your previous posts and you mentioned that you have strabismus and got prism in your glasses to correct it. Do you think the U2410 would work for you if you do not have the glasses to correct strabismus?

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Oct 16, 2013 6:25 PM (in response to kvoth)

    Are you wearing anti-Glare coated glasses while looking at it or nothing at all?

  • Jessiah1 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 16, 2013 6:29 PM (in response to Jerry3012)

    Jerry, Kvoth was going to get some anti-glare coated glasses with prism recently and that could make a difference. If the U2410 is CCFL back lit as Kvoth has stated then it would be similar technology to my current DELL CCFL back lit monitor, I can wear my anti-glare glasses and not get headaches for a few hours while veiwing a CCFL and I am SUPER sensitive...Without the glare coating I cannot look at even a CCFL monitor for more than 3-5 minutes before getting a migraine.

  • mvanier Calculating status...
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    Oct 16, 2013 6:56 PM (in response to Jessiah1)

    Just to clarify: the Dell U2410 has an anti-glare coating on it as a standard feature.  The U2711 (27 inch, CCFL-backlit) does too, and some people have complained that the anti-glare coating is too heavy (distorting text etc.).  Of course, not all CCFL-backlit monitors have anti-glare coatings.

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