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  • 135. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Sekoya Level 2 Level 2 (225 points)

    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

    Hi Sekoya

     

    Just keep thinking that. Hold the nice thoughts and ignore what is actually there in front of you on the screen.

    My motto is generally more along the lines of never attributing to malice what can be explained by virtue. Not that it always can be explained by virtue or that I always manage to see things from a positive perspective.

  • 136. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    Sekoya wrote:

     

    Gavin Lawrie wrote:

     

    One could thus say that I'm not enraged about the new Pages because this (r)evolution was something I considered a very distinct possibility.

     

    More to the point is that, like most people who make excuses for Apple's moves, and think "the changes have their merits", it turns out they never used the thing in the first place.

     

    Thanks for letting us know so we can weight your input accordingly.

     

    Peter

  • 137. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    Sekoya wrote:

     

    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

    Hi Sekoya

     

    Just keep thinking that. Hold the nice thoughts and ignore what is actually there in front of you on the screen.

    My motto is generally more along the lines of never attributing to malice what can be explained by virtue. Not that it always can be explained by virtue or that I always manage to see things from a positive perspective.

     

    Indifference and thoughtless lack of concern for the welfare of others usually does more harm than malice.

     

    Malice being more readily obvious leads people to actively avoid it.

     

    Peter

  • 138. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    Sekoya wrote:

     

    enteecee wrote:

     

    This is exactly right.

     

    And directly to Sekoya's Challenge:

    1)  Those goals are worthy ones.  Great ones, in fact.

    2)  A better strategy would have been to delay those goals until they could impliment them well. 

    And what is wrong with giving people an implementation of a subset of these goals (that is internally consistent) once that subset is ready?

    (I have an answer but I'm curious what other people think.)

     

    Read an excellent article by a top programmer that summed it up nicely.

     

    "If you ship cr@p it usually stays cr@p."

     

    Some people like to muddy the water though with platitudes and the vain hope "that it will all get fixed".

     

    …eventually.

     

    …after you have picked up all the pieces, got on with your life and you simply don't care.

     

    Peter

  • 139. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Sekoya Level 2 Level 2 (225 points)

    Kenneth Collins1 wrote:

    The part of Pages 4.x that changed with the release of Pages 5 is its future. Word has a future, Pages 4.x does not. We eventually have to replace Pages 4.x with something, and that something is not Pages 5, which is not its successor, but an entirely different kind of software with the same name. I'm sure that Pages 5 is delightful, but not for people who need the feature set of Pages 4.3.

    I don't know who ever expected from Apple to always keep evolving a product in the same direction. And I never expected Pages to gain a lot of new features, or to evolve into a tool suitable for academic work or to go towards InDesign in its feature set. I always expected a new version to add things I had not though of yet not to do things other applications were already doing.

     

    The raison d'être of Pages in my mind was to offer an easy to use tool to create great looking documents of modest complexity used for modest tasks.

  • 140. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Sekoya Level 2 Level 2 (225 points)

    Kenneth Collins1 wrote:

     

    It's like removing a refrigerator and replacing it with a slick, modern, efficient dishwasher. Now everyone is rightly up in arms about how they are going to wash their dishes in a refrigerator.

    They did not remove the refridgerator, they just moved it out of its prime spot and into a corner.

  • 141. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Kenneth Collins1 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I got it mixed up. I meant that we had Dishwasher 4.3 and they replaced it with Refrigerator 5, and now we have the problem of washing dishes in a refrigerator. The dishwasher is still there, but it has been replaced with one of those plastic, counter-top things that you connect to the faucet with a hose.

  • 142. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    Sekoya wrote:

     

    Kenneth Collins1 wrote:

     

    It's like removing a refrigerator and replacing it with a slick, modern, efficient dishwasher. Now everyone is rightly up in arms about how they are going to wash their dishes in a refrigerator.

    They did not remove the refridgerator, they just moved it out of its prime spot and into a corner.

     

    …behind the dishwasher which grabs your food and turns it into inedible sludge.

     

    Peter

  • 143. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Sekoya Level 2 Level 2 (225 points)

    Kenneth Collins1 wrote:

     

    Jony Ive shouldn't be fired. He's really good at hardware design. He just shouldn't be allowed to come within 100 yards of software development.

    I really don't think Jony Ive is much involved in deciding the direction in terms of features and purpose of applications. Otherwise what would Federighi and or Eddy Cue (he is responsible for iCloud and thus for a key element of Pages 5) be responsible for in regard to iWork? Just the plumbing?

     

    Federighi is the head of software (except the UI) and the direction and feature set of software and Cue is the head of internet services which in regard to iWork is linked to application feature set.

  • 144. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Kenneth Collins1 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I don't know whoever expected from Apple to always keep evolving a product in the same direction. And I never expected Pages to gain a lot of new features, or to evolve into a tool suitable for academic work or to go towards InDesign in its feature set. I always expected a new version to add things I had not though of yet not to do things other applications were already doing.

     

    The raison d'être of Pages in my mind was to offer an easy to use tool to create great looking documents of modest complexity used for modest tasks.

     

    I can't disagree with that. However, if you make software, put features in it, and sell it, your customers are going to use those features. Strange, but true. If you've done a good job, a lot of people will come to depend upon those features. Also odd, but also true. Like you, I also expected a new version to add things I didn't think of, but I never in my wildest nightmares imagined that Apple would remove almost the entire feature set. It used to be an easy-to-use tool to create great loooking documents of modest complexity, but now it is a tool for someone else to do something else somewhere else, and I'm left out in the cold.

     

    After iOS 7, and this, I'm going to be very, very careful before I commit to Apple's software. I can't afford to invest a lot of time and effort only to have Apple whimsically pull the rug out from under me.

     

    My main problem is that I need Pages 4.3's features. I genuinely do. I wanted to buy a new iMac this fall, but now I can't, because I can't install my most important software on it. I have to find another word processor and migrate all my documents to it before I can even think of buying an iMac. That's going to take a long time.

     

    Is Apple managing me out as a customer?

  • 145. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Kenneth Collins1 Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Jpny Ive has been put in charge of software user interfaces. He's the one behind iOS 7's user interface. Next year, we'll get to see what he'll do to OS X.

  • 146. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Derick Fay Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)

    If you are looking for a very robustly-featured, highly-scriptable Mac word processor that plays great with Word docs., I highly recommend Nisus Writer Pro.  I had been drifting into using Pages after buying iWork '09 boxed to get Keynote, but will definitely be going 100% back to Nisus now.

  • 147. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    Sekoya Level 2 Level 2 (225 points)

    PeterBreis0807 wrote:

     

    Great opportunity for Swift Publisher, they should get out there and start really promoting plus giving cross grades to Pages Users.

     

    Swift Publisher has some great features that were missing in Pages '09 let alone Pages The Walking Dead.

     

    Swift Publisher however lacks things like Spreadsheet Tables that made Pages '09 so great.

     

    Could be a great opening for Serif PagePlus to step into the breach. It is the best low cost DTP software out there on any platform (currently Windows only). Supposedly runs well in CrossOver.

     

    Peter

    Why do I keep hearing new names every year as applications that are cited to be the best in a certain field? Why do I keep hearing statements that application B is clearly better than application A and that application B will be the next great thing in its field?

     

    Well, maybe because they might be better at a number of things but if looked at closely are lacking in other areas. Or because they 'show promise' but if that promise isn't followed through, the attention moves over to another application. Take Mellel, which is so much better at certain things than Word or Pages, and while it soliders on and I still consider its concept as a very solid one, it hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Or Lineform, which I like much better than Illustrator for simple stuff and whose development stopped after maybe half a year. The vast majority of applications don't become one of the dominant ones in their general field (almost by definition). They either stay in a niche (ie, in the few areas where they are really good) or they wither and eventually die. And it's not that their intial feature set and execution isn't very good, they can be great and evolve at steady pace in right direction but if they don't get enough traction, they don't make it out of their nieche.

     

    And Pages never really made it out of its 'casual' nieche and like all those applications that are the 'best' in a given field, being surprised when they don't become what you want them to become is not a realistic worldview.

  • 148. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (29,620 points)

    My realistic worldview is that Apple has just killed Pages, and probably the rest of their iWork suite.

     

    I am merely suggesting replacements to the extent that they do the job and will not suffer the same fate as iWork because they are core to their creators' businesses, not just toys in Happy Meals.

     

    No point looking to Apple it clearly seems to be finishing the job it started over a decade ago of ridding itself of Users who think for themselves in favor of the the much more easily manipulated consumer who can be taxed eventually on breathing, being persuaded that they are incapable of doing that for themselves.

     

    Can't say I didn't see this coming, just hoped against hope that Apple would change course. It hasn't.

     

    Why doesn't Apple just come out and say that it is going to totally dumb down OSX and iOS so that it is only fit for Facebook and endless Selfies.

     

    Peter

  • 149. Re: Pages 5 features checklist
    VikingOSX Level 5 Level 5 (5,485 points)

    Maybe we should go back to the original Pages ...

     

    Pages.jpg

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